Your Magic Live! Perfume Genius Goes Where He’s Never Gone Before
Host Michelle Tea is joined by a mystical lineup of stars, recorded live from Los Angeles on September 26, 2021. Author and poet Morgan Parker reads some witchy poems. Meme dealer Catpowerman5K shares images from his upcoming Britney Spears tarot deck. Actress and tarot creator Rachel True pulls cards for a Black nerd. And musician and Libra-in-residence Perfume Genius gets a tarot reading about forging a new path in life. Cure your FOMO if you couldn’t make the show in-person.
Michelle Tea: Hello, and welcome to Your Magic. I’m Michelle Tea, and today we have an extra special podcast for you. It is a partial recording of Your Magic Live — a for real, IRL, in-person show that we did back on September 26th in Los Angeles at the gorgeous Dynasty Typewriter Theater. It was heady AF to be standing on a stage again — blinded by the stage lights, feeling the energy of the audience, excited and nervous and hopped up on a sugar-free energy drink, which I like to drink alcoholically before any public speaking. It’s my potion.
Anyway, you’re about to hear our guests, poet Morgan Parker, Gentry McShane, who runs the meme account CatPowerman 5K, beloved icon Rachel True, tarot creator and star of The Craft, of course, among other things, and the enigmatic and elegant artist and musician Perfume Genius. Here we go.
[Music]
Michelle Tea: You guys, the curtains just opened magically by a disembodied voice, this has never happened to me before. Thank you so much. Thank you. You guys, thanks for coming to Your Magic Live! We are so psyched to be back in real life doing shows with people. We tried doing one of these on the Internet at some point during the pandemic, and it was cute, but it just wasn't the same. So this is very exciting. Thanks for getting vaccinated so we can all be together again. Yeah, clap for yourself.
You know, this is a show of the Your Magic podcast, which you can listen to on Spotify, where I interview people that I adore and read their tarot cards and I'll be doing similar things today. I just wanted to give you a little bit of like an astrological, like, weather forecast. Mercury went retrograde at midnight. So, yeah, it's just, you know, if you're like, "Is it?" It is. It is and it's just the first day, so — and it's in - it's in Libra. I don't know what that means exactly. Like, you know, like, like bad like, like miscommunication with partnerships perhaps? I’m not sure. Also just like ten minutes ago the Moon and Neptune just started having this like, like fight. They're fighting in the sky and it's making everyone delusional. So you're like, am I delusional right now? You are. But it's going to be worse for Geminis and Pisces. But you guys won't even notice it. You won't even notice it. Business as usual, OK? Don't worry about it. Everybody else is going to be like, you know. I love all the signs equally. Every sign is beautiful. Elvira is gay. That's really exciting. That's very exciting. It's a great way to kick off a spooky season, which in my world has already happened and I just think that now we just need to find out that Elvira is also actually Dolly Parton and then just like full circle and that we've all gotten like the Elvira vaccine, actually, which is amazing. She can definitely stick me with a needle.
All right. Well, I'm going to just start bringing guests out. This is like a talk show where I talk to people that are super interesting and I’m really psyched about our first guest. She is the author of There are Things More Beautiful Than Beyonce, Magical Negro. She has a young adult book that just came out. Please welcome the amazing Morgan Parker. Morgan Parker, Morgan Parker.
Morgan Parker: Hello. Oh, my God, I missed audiences. Hello. Please laugh at me. I'm just like, really, I'm starved for it. Yeah, I'm just going to read a couple witchy joints...
"I told my therapist, I tried to meditate and she laughed. I can't leave the house because I'm invisible. The landscape is like really hectic, vibes. I've been thinking, Goddamn it, I'm trying to get whole. I sneak wheatfields, I'm obsessed with how people are wrong, they are ugly and so am I. I am perfect because I know everything. I carry a light made out of your mouth. Here we are. We are sick, but we will not be sick forever. I have three heads, so I'm perfect. Snow at my feet, blood moon in my pussy. Anything good, you can find in the dark."
"Slouching towards Beyonce. Who reads her horoscope in secret and bathes her loose strings in holy watercolor, cucumbers over the temple. Her body is like mine. It is filled with holes. It starts black and stays black. I keep thinking the only city left is outer space where we lived before we had tongues. Things don't fall apart, they find new homes. Down here, there's a thing called skin. I keep mine clean. There are things called medication and days. They are hard to believe. I am tired so I wife myself. Down here, the boys are theoretical. I shrink their hearts. I say spells because I'm magic. Fire is another word for absolute sunset on a high cliff. I am never afraid to jump. Oh Beyonce, I love you. Your fragments like a map. I think I’m addicted. You, soaked blue. You, trouble in my sight. The beast has come at last hair of a cat tail and legs of a poem, the truth like a bowl of seeds, the secret album, Midnight. Oh, Vessel of Womanhood. I am loosed upon the world with dust and filed nails. All my life. I turn water into wine. This the hour I lower my shoulders, my second coming, split-screen clouds like orchid bulbs in the throat."
"The Book of Revelation. Kiss the years, their filth. It's my turn to dress up forlorn in gold, fib through rotting teeth. I'm looking regal, constantly exploding. Do you think I could be a witch? Can shine be caught like a fever? My therapist says something in my core is dark and the surface of my planet, too. She says many creative people. And I can't see a beautiful day if I tried. She says peace is something people tell themselves.”
Michelle Tea: Morgan Parker, thank you so much. I really feel like I don't know, I don't want to make huge generalizations. I feel like a lot of people turn to poetry to feel connected and to feel less alone, and your poetry really does that trick. It's like there's this brilliant, funny, honest person just sitting in the room with you and I feel so connected reading your shit.
Morgan Parker: That’s the goal.
Michelle Tea: So you just wrote a young adult book called Who Put This Song On. What - how did it feel to like write YA and be in that voice?
Morgan Parker: Really weird. Yeah. Yeah, really weird. Especially because I never as a young adult read young adult novels because I was pretentious and they weren't as good as they are now.
Michelle Tea: It's true.
Morgan Parker: Like there wasn't I was like... I'm not a horse girl. So there wasn't a lot going on.
Michelle Tea: Like Sweet Valley High.
Morgan Parker: Yes, Sweet Valley. Like I'm not blond and I didn't have a horse, so there's not that much to read.
Michelle Tea: Nothing for you.
Morgan Parker: So that was weird. And also like, yeah, I'm just like a weird kid. So a lot of it was the editors being like, "This doesn't sound like a kid." And I'm like, this is from my notebooks. So I think that was another weird part of it, is that it's, you know, very autobiographical, I think. But of course, you know, nothing really happened to me. So you have to make up tons of stuff. But, you know, the core of the characters is based on...
Michelle Tea: Their spirit.
Morgan Parker: ...on my experience. So and I did —especially because it's about learning, I was depressed in high school and going through that process. I really did go back to a lot of my old journals and like passed notes that my friends and I have, like, I keep everything.
Michelle Tea: Treasures.
Morgan Parker: So it was really intense just to go back to that and remember, like what that voice is and what all the feelings were.
Michelle Tea: What's your astrological makeup?
Morgan Parker: I am a Sagittarius.
Michelle Tea: Yes, you are.
Morgan Parker: Times a lot.
Michelle Tea: Do you have like a stellium, you have a few planets in Sagittarius?
Morgan Parker: So my chart looks like it's like a cluster in one area, it looks so unbalanced that it's just like, aw. I'm just missing like a whole half of a personality.
Michelle Tea: No, it's just that everything's having a party in Sagittarius.
Morgan Parker: It’s all going on.
Michelle Tea: There’s a party and everyone's there in Sagittarius. I feel like Sagittarius energy is so sort of like forever young. It seems like it would be such a great match for you to write Y.A. because you feel like you have a connection to sort of like, I don't know, young people or like your own young self.
Morgan Parker: Certainly.
Michelle Tea: Yeah.
Morgan Parker: 100 percent. I mean, I feel like part of that is that I - well, I'm a Gemini rising. So I do have like a lot of selves.
Michelle Tea: Yeah.
Morgan Parker: And, and also as an artist that's just like kind of how I experience the world. So it is - it is nice to spend some intentional time with that, you know, teen...
Michelle Tea: Yeah.
Morgan Parker: Who you know, she'll appear anyway. So to be able to make that time and you know, look at her in the face and talk to her.
Michelle Tea: I love that and now we get to hang out with her.
Morgan Parker: Just tell her that it's all going to be okay. Yeah.
Michelle Tea: Morgan Parker, thank you so much for being on Your Magic Live. Clap for this genius.
Morgan Parker: Thank you, guys.
Michelle Tea: Thanks, Morgan.
Michelle Tea: Our next person out here is Gentry McShane, who you might actually know as CatPowerMan 5000. And we don’t need this for him. We don’t need it. Thank you so much though. This is the best theater, can you please clap for everyone who works at Dynasty Typewriter? So sweet, so amazing.
Just like our next creator coming out here — Gentry, come on out. This is CatPowerMan 5000. You might know him from the Internet.
Gentry McShane: So good to be here.
Michelle Tea: It's so awesome to be here. You are my favorite meme producer.
Gentry McShane: Thank you.
Michelle Tea: What do people - what do - you make memes. What - what do you say? What do you call yourself? A meme... A meme machine?
Gentry McShane: Well, so, I mean, at first I what - I didn't always do my own memes.
Michelle Tea: OK.
Gentry McShane: I just kind of collected them.
Michelle Tea: You were a meme collector.
Gentry McShane: Right. Like I would like curate...
Michelle Tea: Yeah. OK.
Gentry McShane: … a meme collection online. And then as I started looking at memes so much I, you know, couldn't help but...
Michelle Tea: Did you like train - you trained your brain?
Gentry McShane: Kind of.
Michelle Tea: Do you think memeing can be learned?
Gentry McShane: I do. I think it can be learned. I think it's about kind of how you relate to ideas and or take ideas that maybe feel really personal and then how you relate them to other people.
Michelle Tea: Yeah, it is a whole new way of communicating.
Gentry McShane: It is, yeah.
Michelle Tea: It’s like for our time.
Gentry McShane: Yeah, I mean — there’s ways that it can be toxically communicative as well.
Michelle Tea: For sure, yeah. We ruin everything.
Gentry McShane: Yeah, for sure. For sure.
Michelle Tea: Maybe I'm delusional. We are having a delusional transit right now, but I really feel like you led the charge to free Britney. I feel like it's all on you. I feel like you were the first person that I really heard. I didn't even know anything. I didn't know Britney was in trouble until - until CatPowerMan 5000 told me and I was shocked. And now she's free. Has she thanked you?
Gentry McShane: Yeah, I hear that from a lot of people. And I think it's really nice, like when people associate me with that. You know, I started posting about it when I first heard about it, which is like right after she had gotten committed by her dad. And so I was like, "Huh, that's weird." And I saw, like, kind of like a movement building around it online and like these people that were kind of like - like didn't really know how to be activists, I felt like, you know, I saw a lot of like younger - like maybe younger people or people that were, you know, just kind of more pop-oriented. And they were just kind of like trying to push this thing and I thought, "OK, well, what if we, like, tie this into some other things going on?" And so that's kind of what I try to do with my account was push that in that way.
Michelle Tea: Yeah. Very cool. Yeah. It's so fun and so and like also so serious and you haven't stopped with your Britney love. What you got in your little leather cap there?
Gentry McShane: Well, so this is my Free Britney leather daddy hat and [laughs] and inside of it is Britney tarot cards that I made.
Michelle Tea: Can we get some imagery up here to share with the crowd? So you're making a Britney Spears tarot deck?
Gentry McShane: Right. So I've designed the entire major arcana, which actually I think I might just leave it at that, because when I first learned tarot, I just kind of pulled out the major arcana first.
Michelle Tea: There are decks that are just the major arcana.
Gentry McShane: Right. I thought so.
Michelle Tea: That's totally legit.
Gentry McShane: Cool, cool. So yeah, it’s just the major arcana. But yeah, so.
Michelle Tea: Are you gonna… can you take us through it a little bit?
Gentry McShane: So this is the Fool.
Michelle Tea: Oh yeah. What a dreamer.
Gentry McShane: This is her first single as everyone knows. But you know, she didn't know what was ahead of her. Neither do you. [laughs]
Michelle Tea: Oh yeah.
Gentry McShane: The Magician, so this was the follow up, obviously to the Fool.
Michelle Tea: Making shit happen in that outfit.
Gentry McShane: Exactly, making it happen. So that’s the Magician.
The High Priestess. Lots of mystery, intrigue. Do we ever really know the real Britney?
Michelle Tea: Wow. Is that like the Mona Lisa? But Britney.
Gentry McShane: It is, yes. She has a song called “Mona Lisa.” So each one has like - has like a song that goes with it. “Mona Lisa” was a weird song that she tried to - tried to release on an album called Original Doll that was never released. But in it she says something about being cloned. And I was like, "That's weird," you know? So there was like this kind of weird conspiracy around her cloning or something like that.
Michelle Tea: Yes. I smell a deep internet dive ahead of me.
Gentry McShane: The Chariot. So the song for the Chariot is “Work Bitch”...um…
Michelle Tea: I want this deck so bad, oh my god. OK.
I love how much thought you put into this. This is like deep. Yeah, okay good.
Gentry McShane: The Hermit. So I —
Michelle Tea: Oh my god, this is the best one.
Gentry McShane: It’s pretty good. I really don’t like using paparazzi photos of her but I really like this one because it’s just - it looks just like the Hermit that I’m familiar with.
Michelle Tea: The hood, yes. And it’s Hermit vibes, big time. Yeah.
Gentry McShane: And the song for the Hermit is “Touch of My Hand” which is like a masturbatory kind of song about getting in touch with yourself.
The Wheel of Fortune. This is her slot machine in Vegas, obviously.
Michelle Tea: Oh, my God, oh, my God.
Gentry McShane: And the song for Wheel of Fortune is “Why Should I Be Sad?” Where she says, "I sent you to Vegas with a pocketful of papers." She's talking about Kevin Federline.
The Tower. So this is - this was a weird choice because it was like... This is her like big number that she did at the VMAs where it went really poorly, supposedly. I think it's great. Like when I watch it now, I'm like, "Wow, that was amazing," you know? But I think at the time it was...
Michelle Tea: It was the beginning of the end for her for a moment.
Gentry McShane: Right. And I think people didn't really know how to take it, but she was obviously just overworked at this point and really tired. The song that she sang in this was “Gimme More.” So that's the song for this card, which is kind of just, you know, you've given everything you can give and - and people want more. So that's kind of The Tower.
Michelle Tea: It all comes crashing down.
You know, while I have you out here, we solicited some - some questions from folks in the audience.
Gentry McShane: Oh!
Michelle Tea: So how do you feel about pulling some cards from your Britney deck out of your leather hat?
Gentry McShane: Yeah. We don’t have to go through all of them.
Michelle Tea: All right. You're going to like this one. You're gonna like this one. We'll just - we'll just do a couple while I got you out here. "Should I happily explode my life in pursuit of an old love interest?"
Gentry McShane: Let’s see.
Michelle Tea: Thank you for that, audience. That was like a collective, deep.... What does Britney, say?
Gentry McShane: The Lovers.
Michelle Tea: Whoa, whoa! Now The Lovers being like somewhat of a neutral card almost in a situation like this... Don't you think it's saying go for it, make that decision?
Gentry McShane: I think it could be saying that, but it could also be saying, you know, that maybe you can think about all the ways that you can love that person and maybe sometimes you can love them by not being in a relationship.
Michelle Tea: By not exploding your life. Do you want to pick like - like a card for like what if they do explode their life? And then what if they don't explode their life?
Gentry McShan: Yeah. Let’s... we should do that.
Michelle Tea: How do you feel about that? Do you like that? Exploding explosions first. OK, OK.
Gentry McShane: My explanation thing right here.
Michelle Tea: Oh.
Gentry McShane: OK. So I just pulled the Empress.
Michelle Tea: For exploding the life? That's nice. That's a very gentle card for an explosion.
Gentry McShane: It is. It's maybe saying that nurturing is the way to go.
Michelle Tea: Yeah.
Gentry McShane: The Empress I think is a good reminder to be patient. Like sometimes when you pull the Empress it's like, "Oh, you know, like I, I'm so mad at this person." But you can just kind of see them as a child, like...
Michelle Tea: Oh, I like that. So maybe it's like go towards that person but maybe you don't have to, maybe doesn't have to be so explosive.
Gentry McShane: Right.
Michelle Tea: Maybe put the TNT aside. Is there another way?
Gentry McShane: Exactly. Exactly.
Michelle Tea: OK. OK, and what if they don't? What if they're like, "You know, you're in the past." What if they leave the past to the past?
Gentry McShane: The High Priestess.
Michelle Tea: Oh God. It's like two goddesses duking it out. Right? Because like, they're so similar to each other.
Gentry McShane: They are similar. But I feel like the big difference is that the High Priestess is maybe like a little more wise.
Michelle Tea: I think so, too, because the Empress can be a little co.
Gentry McShane: Yeah.
Michelle Tea: She can be a codependent. All right.
Gentry McShane: So I don't know, I don't know what that you know, what kind of answer that leads to.
Michelle Tea: I would - if this person was paying me cold, hard cash, I would tell them your higher self knows to - to not do it. That's what I would say. But what a pivotal moment for them to have to consider it, like it feels like… this is exciting. I like this deck so much because it's all - it being all major arcana. Everything's like really intense.
Gentry McShane: Right. Well, there's that powerful aspect of it. But I also like that it kind of can open people up to learning about tarot who maybe don't... Maybe they feel intimidated by it or something. You know? It's not something they know.
Michelle Tea: And like opening up tarot people to learning about Britney.
Gentry McShane: Exactly.
Michelle Tea: Thank you so much for being on Your Magic.
Gentry McShane: Absolutely, thank you guys.
Michelle Tea: Listen, are you... You guys, shouldn't Gentry, do like a Kickstarter to produce this goddamn deck? Right? Wouldn't you buy it? Wouldn't you buy it? I would buy it.
Gentry McShane: Cool. Thank you guys.
Michelle Tea: You're welcome.
[Music]
Michelle Tea: You guys, I'm so psyched for our next guest. You know she's done so many amazing things and I just how — even though this was so long ago, it remains important forevermore. Rachel True was the iconic role of Rochelle in The Craft and that's so important. She's an actress. She created her own tarot book, True Heart Intuitive Tarot, which I have here. She's a badass Scorpio and I love her. Please welcome Rachel True.
You know, a lot of these folks have been on the Your Magic podcast right? Like Rachel was on it. We had such a great time talking but like we've never met each other, but we had this, like, fun time hanging out. And now here we are in the flesh.
What's been going on? You've been in Atlanta. You were shooting a movie.
Rachel True: I was in Atlanta. I don't know if any of you have gotten a chance to see this documentary I did called Horror Noire. I call it “Hara Nor,” but it’s Horror Noire. It's really good. It's basically talks about the history of Black people in horror.
Michelle Tea: Oh, I love this.
Rachel True: The reflection of that. And it's funny. It's entertaining. It's a million things I didn't expect. But now they've gone on and we're doing a scripted, like horror, you know, like like, you know, Twilight Zone kind of thing. So I was in Atlanta doing that. That was my first time, post-pandemic, around people. And that's why I was like, OK, I'll do this because it feels kind of nice to be out and with each other.
Michelle Tea: Doesn't it? You guys having fun?
Rachel True: Yeah.
Michelle Tea: OK, good. Yeah, I'm so glad. Well that's really exciting. When is the movie going to come out?
Rachel True: That'll be out Halloween.
Michelle Tea: Perfect. What's it called?
Rachel True: Like on AMC and Shudder. And it's called Horror Noire: Black Horror Anthology.
Michelle Tea: Oh it's an — I love anthologies, I love horror anthologies. So you've made a tarot deck. What - what prompted you to make a tarot deck? It's such a huge undertaking. It's like 78 cards.
Rachel True: 78 cards and...
Michelle Tea: Stepping into - into tradition. You must innovate tradition.
Rachel True: And I wrote a book too, which I didn't even bring because that's how I roll. But it's like a book with 22 memoir essays and then a how-to for the tarot. But it's just something that's always been a sense of comfort for me. It's just always been something, I imagine, for you too like a sense of comfort in my life, because I think and I like, what I say in the book, too, is like, you know, if you're used to just calling up your friends and being like, [retches]. This is really good to get your own deck and kind of use it to self-soothe and maybe even process a little bit before we talk to other people. Not that you can't [retches] all over your friends. You certainly can. But I have found in my own life it kind of — I had to learn my cool-down period, you know what I mean? Like, when I get some news or something, I had... Tarot kind of taught me that. That if - as a Scorpio with very little air in my chart, if I found my cool-down period, then I wasn't going to wreck dynamics, relationships, friendships because I would have thought about it a little bit or had the tarot helped me discern what's real and what's Memorex, which is a really old expression that you young people don't even know what Memorex is, do you?
Michelle Tea: Plus, there's like - there's something about when your friend comes to you, when they're like, [retches], this happened or if they're like, "So I pulled the Tower card today," just like, “Oh, OK.”
Rachel True: Yeah.
Michelle Tea: You're ready. You're like you've already been OK.
Rachel True: Well, because it is the hero's journey so right, if they say I pulled this card, you know pretty much where they're out on their journey or where they're coming from or going rather than the minutia — like I can't, you can't expect someone to live in the minutia of your brain because —
Michelle Tea: It's hard enough to do it on your own.
Rachel True: That’s what I’m saying. It’s really hard for me in my own brain. So I like to kind of do that favor for myself. I always say too, for all the newly minted TikTok witchlings, like learn to walk before you fly your broomstick. Like learning some of the basics of this is so handy for the rest of the whatever your particular magical practice is.
Michelle Tea: Listen, let's help some people. Some people have problems out there in the audience. Do you have - do you have your deck with you? I have a copy of your deck.
Rachel True: I do you have my deck with me.
Michelle Tea: Oh, my God. Look, we have — Gentry forgot the Lovers, the Lovers will stick around.
Rachel True: Perfect, it's a choice for something. And you have the super harsh deck, too. I always say...
Michelle Tea: The Thoth deck, the super harsh deck.
Rachel True: I do think — I like to use different tactics for different moods. You know, like I designed my deck to kind of feel like a comfortable hug from a friend. And sometimes I want that. But other times I'm like, "No, break me down."
Michelle Tea: I have had people when I went to give them a reading with the Thoth deck, they were like, "No, not that deck." And I had to go get the Daughters of the Moon round lesbian deck with no harsh edges, just the nice, the nice round deck.
Rachel True: I love the, the Mother Peace.
Michelle Tea: Another one with no harsh edges.
Here we go. Here we go. Let me see, OK. "Should I maintain my relationship with my ex as friends?" I would say, like, what does it look like if she does that right? Like that's what we want to see, like.
Rachel True: This is something I was saying, we were talking about a tiny bit backstage, how we phrase questions straight to ourselves, but also to the deck, I think is super important. So say that again.
Michelle Tea: It says, "Should I maintain my relationship with my ex as friends?"
Rachel True: I'm an intuitive reader, right, as so many of you are so of course. I also am listening to my body and what I'm picking up on and I get this weird energy in my head. I don't — here's what I'm going to say. I am friends with most of my exes and I mean friends. We don't fuck, we're just friends because it's somebody else's problem now. But I - that's kind of what I picked up and I have no idea who you are, if it's valid for you. But I just picked up this energy here and I thought depends if like, if you still have intentions on them. Right? Your motivations are super important here, because if you can truly be friends with them without any expectation, I think I get yes. But I also get a bit of a Prince of Wands is what we get. Right. So there's this fiery energy there and it's a bit of a mercurial character, right? Come in and out. Yeah. Super fun sex. Probably. Or not anymore. I don't know where you're at with it, but I get the sense of like... There's still this, which could be a little dangerous, you know? Do you want to set your house on fire? It sounds, seems to me like some rules.
Michelle Tea: Is that the Hierophant?
Rachel True: The Hierophant.
Michelle Tea: OK.
Rachel True: So I'm going to say with some ground rules, sure. You have free will. You could do whatever you want. I mean, really, though, so the question is, do you want to? You know? That's probably what - I'm - sometimes I get selfish. What would I get out of staying friends with my ex? I mean, again, what are your motivations? But Ace of Disks kind of popped out and so I'll say it looks like if you set some ground rules, decide whether it's sexual or nonsexual, just friends, whatever, that would probably be fine. Ace of Disks. But it also like with that Prince of Wands, I'm - I'm just saying there's a - there's probably a reason it's your ex. Right? So that may flare up in the friendship too, period.
Michelle Tea: Right. That's unpredictable with that Prince of Wands.
Rachel True: It is!
Michelle Tea: But it looks like with the Hierophant in the disks, there's potential for like a grounded, new world together.
Rachel True: Yeah. Absolutely. Depending on who's... I mean, I got a controlling sense, too, but that's... You're...
Michelle Tea: You're being psychic, right now.
Rachel True: That's your problem, not mine.
Michelle Tea: She's being psychic right now. This is - this is extra special.
Rachel True: But I think most people who read are, right? I mean, my thing — I had a big discussion with [unclear] who’s in The Craft. And I said, “Everyone’s magical and everyone’s psychic.” She’s like, “No, they’re not.” And I was like, “No, they are!”
Michelle Tea: And then she hissed at you. [hisses]
Alright, here's another one. "I stopped talking to some white friends last year after George Floyd."
Rachel True: Didn't we all, girl? Or whoever [laughs]
Michelle Tea: "They want to start playing Dungeons and Dragons again. Should I join them? It's like... There's the - there's the cards you pull about the friend and then the cards you pull about Dungeons and Dragons.
Rachel True: You know, but like, do I need to pull a card on this one? But I will.
Michelle Tea: Yeah.
Rachel True: Because I said I would. Once again, I say the number one thing is everyone has free will, right? So it's a lot of —
Michelle Tea: I like this like Scorpio version of tarot reading where people like, should I do this? And you're like, “Do what you want.” You know, it's just like tough as Scorpio, 90s. “I could pick a card, but why don't you do what you want?” [laughs]
Rachel True: At this point, like I'm six million years old and I'm like, I don't give a... I do care. So listen. It's not - it's not that I don't care, but questions like that, I'm like, listen, here's the thing. Would I do that without a conversation? No, but if you would, that's your thing, person. I'm trying to train myself to stop saying, "Hey, you guys" from Electric Company and "man," because that's so 70s, you know.
Michelle Tea: I say, man all the time. I kind of just lean into how 70s it is.
Rachel True: I know, but I don't want to bother anyone. So listen, this is the three cards because I was like one ain't enough.
Michelle Tea: Yeah.
Rachel True: This one also, interestingly enough, I don't do in my book, I talk about how I don't reversals. It's just the way I read doesn't, great if you do. I go by higher, like, vibe energy. Right? Because it's not too hard for me to discern if I'm fighting with a friend and the Ten of Cups comes up... Well then it's not upright is it? I don't need it reversed if I know there's no kinship and joy. That's how I read. Everyone's different. But so what I pick up is like Ace of - Ace of Swords, which is a clear conversation that is not ruled by emotions. But she's not like bitchy. She's just like, no, don't try to sway me with the puppy in the corner. Let's talk facts. So I believe with a conversation, but I don't know. Here's what I get. Honestly, I don't know. You could find a different group right? Like of people who are aware and aligned with your vibration, energy, frequency, vibration. So I think a lot of us get stuck in friendship traps with people that were just there. They're used to it. We don't want to be lonely, but we're complaining about them to our therapists. We're complaining about them to our other friends. And I'm saying don't be the person who just complains, do something about it. Right? Like active participation to me is what tarot's about, what life's about. So if I was going to play Dungeons and Dragons with a bunch of maybe possibly unaware, not quite racist, but possibly, you know, I think it's a loaded situation. Seven of Swords. Right?
Michelle Tea: Oh, yeah.
Rachel True: But the thing about card, I'll say you can be clever like a fox. You know, that's part of this card. Or you could be - you could be dealing with underhanded stuff. So it just depends. I think the greater thing I heard in that thing is, you know, for me, I just would love to see you vibrate with people that you don't have to drop because they're not willing to have social commentary with you. Wheel of Fortune, you know, says to me that there may be a blurred group of Black nerds out there playing Dungeons and Dragons.
Michelle Tea: Yes.
Rachel True: An integrated group of other people where you might meet fun or more like-minded people. It's a little trickier than the group already know. But I'm saying take a risk.
Michelle Tea: All right. I like that. I like that. All right. Here's another one. "How will talking to my parents about their vax status before I visit home go? How will that go?" They want to peek into the future.
Rachel True: I know, let’s see.
Michelle Tea: What’s it look like, what’s it look like to have the, “So…”
Rachel True: I mean…
Michelle Tea: “...Mom, Dad…Nana…Papa?”
Rachel True: You know what it looks like... It could be fruitful. It looks like you probably I mean, I get the sense maybe, I get Eight of Disks. Right? So maybe you've already been talking to them a little bit. You've already prepped them a bit and some of your groundwork may be paying off with them.
Michelle Tea: They know you. Yeah, they know you.
Rachel True: But also, you know them. So I'm saying, know the work that you've done, but also like in this particular card, most cards, it's a solo person. Right? So you have to be OK with your work as it is even before you get the accolades and the recognition. So some of the conversations that you have had with them already that you may have you may not get the response you want in that exact moment, but it has resonated. What would you add to the Eight of Pentacles for that?
Michelle Tea: You know, I'm so brainwashed by the Thoth deck, I've been reading with it for so long and now so exclusively.
Rachel True: Fair enough.
Michelle Tea: But when I read with - like when I read with your book at home, like I always go by you, like I don't pay attention. You know, I only go by what your meanings are. And I do that with all the different decks I use. But I am thinking of how in the Thoth deck it's Prudence, you know what I mean? And so I also feel like it's a little message from the tarot of like, you've got to have this conversation with them. You know, it's really important to have the conversation.
Rachel True: I agree. I just for some reason, I'm like, I don't know if they're going to exactly tell you what you want to hear.
Michelle Tea: Who's that? Who's that?
Rachel True: The Devil.
Michelle Tea: Oh, Jesus.
Rachel True: So that's I'm... [laughs]
Michelle Tea: Just the devil. Are your - is your family a bunch of lying liars like so many of our families are?
Rachel True: Or do they just - are they drunk and have a bacchanalian good time all the time? See, I'm going for the optimistic side of the Devil. No, no. I just think like. You know, it could cause - if you push it too far, then that's that. But I think if, you know when you've been heard, when you — once we start repeating ourselves over and over again to people that we're trying to convince, that's when, you know, I'm saying to you, that's your sign. Like I'm now repeating myself, “Oh, let me go do some work on how to approach this from another way with them.”
Michelle Tea: Yeah, it is about strategy with that Virgo influence for sure.
Rachel True: Yeah.
Michelle Tea: OK, well one more here. One more. "Should I have a baby in this burning world?"
Rachel True: [laughs] Oh, I know that's such a personal conversation, the ... it's such a personal thing.
Michelle Tea: Yeah.
Rachel True: Um, you know...
Michelle Tea: What does it look like? What does it look like if this person has the baby in the burning world?
Rachel True: My gut says, "Have the baby." Your baby could save this burning world. But.
Michelle Tea: No pressure, baby.
Rachel True: Yeah, I'm not... It's just the chosen child, that's all. It’s fine.
Michelle Tea: Gonna cure climate change.
Rachel True: Oh, listen, I get Five of Cups, right? So here's my question for you, because I don't know you. I’m not sitting with you. I don't know your energy. Would you be super sad if you didn't?
Michelle Tea: Hmm. Yeah.
Rachel True: You know? Is that something you really want? But your anxiety is going, "This world could explode." So I'm going to say, I'm going to pull one more, but I'm going to say if it's been something, you know, I don't know... If there’s been a sense of something around it, kind of a heavy energy. Maybe there was one in the pot, maybe there were different situations in the past. We didn't have a baby. I'm going to say, yeah, have the baby. Wheel of Fortune.
Michelle Tea: Oh, wow.
Rachel True: Have the baby. To everybody here pulling a card or not, do the things you think will bring you joy, even if, you know the world is like, like during the pandemic? Like there are a lot of things, but I also, sewed all these weird historical outfits and I was like, well, when the world ends, I'll be the tailor, I guess, you know? It's... Just do the things that keep you going and yes, it's a big decision having a child that you shouldn't rely just on a reader or anyone and it's obviously your own choice with yourself. But Wheel of Fortune says absolutely yes, because I think there's something in you where you would be sad if you did not have a baby.
Michelle Tea: One hundred percent. Yeah. Rachel True. Thank you so much for coming here. Dropping your esoteric knowledge on the people, changing the directions of folks' lives in the audience.
Rachel True: Thank you for having me.
Michelle Tea: We are so excited about your Horror Noire.
Rachel True: That's what it's called. So that'll be on AMC and Shudder and, and the book is called True Heart Intuitive Tarot and it's available everywhere books are sold and I'm super proud because most doctors don't write their own books and I was like, "I'mma write this shit, you know?"
Michelle Tea: Yeah.
Rachel True: To myself. Anyway, Bye, have a lovely afternoon.
Michelle Tea: Bye, Rachel True. You guys, I'm so psyched about our next guest. I'm so happy that he's here with us. He's popping by for a tarot reading. It's Perfume Genius. Who is such an incredible artist, musician, dancer. Yes. Yes. Come on out. Writer, writer of...
Perfume Genius: Hi.
Michelle Tea: The most absurd pornography I've ever read. So beautiful. So great. Thank you — they know — thank you. Thank you. You're a Libra.
Perfume Genius: Yeah.
Michelle Tea: And you just had a birthday?
Perfume Genius: Yesterday, yeah.
Michelle Tea: Oh my God. Happy birthday. Oh my God.
Perfume Genius: Thank you. I can't actually see anybody but I'm facing you.
Michelle Tea: Right here? I like looking out to the blackness. It makes me feel a lot calmer. Did you do anything special for your birthday?
Perfume Genius: I got a really brutal massage.
Michelle Tea: Nice.
Perfume Genius: What else did I do?
Michelle Tea: Do you have like, little, like cupping marks all over your back right now?
Perfume Genius: She just was walking on me, really digging those toes in, too, which I like.
Michelle Tea: Cool.
Perfume Genius: They had little bars on the ceiling.
Michelle Tea: Oh my god, it’s one of those ones. Very cool. It's nice to do things like that on your birthday. Do you enjoy being a Libra? I feel like as someone who doesn't know you at all, but knows your art, you just seem like you are bringing all the most beautiful things out of the Libra.
Perfume Genius: Yeah? I'll take that.
Michelle Tea: But how does it feel? Do you like it?
Perfume Genius: I think so. I don't identify with all of it.
Michelle Tea: What parts do you think are like bullshit?
Perfume Genius: Bullshit? Probably none of it. But I like - I like - I am dedicated to harmony. I do love harmony and that can be paralyzing and make me indecisive, trying to figure out because that, you know, harmony is not always possible.
Michelle Tea: Do you have any astrological signs that you particularly vibe with or really...?
Perfume Genius: I love Scorpio women. I love...
Michelle Tea: You must have been in hog heaven back there in the greenroom then. Crawling with Scorpios.
Perfume Genius: Scorpio women. Who else do I like? Who do I like? Weirdly — not weirdly — “weirdly,” I like Capricorns. I, um, I find them like... hard.
Michelle Tea: They are hard as fuck.
Perfume Genius: Like conceptually, but then in practice, I have a lot of fun with them, but we're just very different.
Michelle Tea: They need to be pushed to have fun.
Perfume Genius: Yeah, I like that because I'm - I like to torture people and... [laughs]
Michelle Tea: With good times?
Perfume Genius: Well, just like to loosen up a little bit.
Michelle Tea: Yeah. Well, you know, I think what's really fun about Capricorns is that they approach, they approach everything like a job. So if you get a Capricorn that realizes that maybe fun is important, then fun becomes their job.
Perfume Genius: That makes sense to me. Yeah, I know one of those goofy-ass Capricorns. Dedicated.
Michelle Tea: What's the rest of your astrological chart? Do you know it?
Perfume Genius: I'm Taurus rising, Virgo Moon.
Michelle Tea: Oh wow. OK, that's very nice. You're like you really are a Venusian. With that Venus.
Perfume Genius: Venus is in Scorpio for me.
Michelle Tea: Oh it is in Scorpio for you. Your Venus is in Scorpio. Oh. So you're like super intense in the sack.
Perfume Genius: Yeah. [laughs]
Michelle Tea: Cool. Well... But also you have a lot of Venus you have like your, your Sun is ruled by Venus and your rising is ruled by Venus. Do you feel like — OK, I want to talk about your - your art a little bit and I'm wondering do you feel like your... Well, I want to talk about your art and your spiritual practice, like, do you feel like they connect at all? Do you feel like - do you connect to something like bigger or mystical through the art that you make?
Perfume Genius: Yeah, I think that's the whole driving force behind it.
Michelle Tea: Yeah?
Perfume Genius: It all feels sort of… To me, when I feel more spiritual is when I feel really hyper present and for a long time, the only way I got there was through writing and music, you know? It wasn't part of my daily life. So.
Michelle Tea: Do you feel like that in performance as well? How do you feel about performing?
Perfume Genius: I do now. It took a long time because I think I feel really safe when I'm alone and writing, I feel even safer. I feel like I don't know kind of creating and directing a space for me to, like, show up finally, so, you know, shows don't always feel like that. I mean like they do. I forget the people are there to see me and they like me. You know what I mean? I just - I don't know why in my head. That's not part of the story.
Michelle Tea: Well, you are a sober person. Yes, I'm a sober person as well. I feel like that's such a classic sober person problem.
Perfume Genius: Yeah.
Michelle Tea: In the head of a sober person of just like nobody likes me. And then it's like you're sitting on stage.
Perfume Genius: But I still feel like I should have a show.
Michelle Tea: Yeah, totally. Totally. Are you - I know that you were on a little bit of a tour because my sperm donor saw you in Tucson.
Perfume Genius: Oh, yeah?
Michelle Tea: Amazing. Yes.
Perfume Genius: A Tuscon sperm donor.
Michelle Tea: Mhmm.
Perfume Genius: Cool.
Michelle Tea: I heard you were, It was really fun. Are you going on more tours? Do you have shows coming up?
Perfume Genius: In November. Yeah, we're going up the West Coast. Yeah. It was really fun. I was really nervous...
Michelle Tea: Do you like being on the road?
Perfume Genius: Um, yeah I do. Yeah. But it's not really sustainable. It's really taxing. And I'm old...er. I’m old. So.
Michelle Tea: It's hard to just like make a meal out of like a truck stop snack.
Perfume Genius: I mean I can do that.
Michelle Tea: What's your fave? Do you have a hack?
Perfume Genius: I just kind of do whatever. I don't have any like boundaries or I don't ever do anything like intentionally, you know, so I just do whatever's around, but. So, yeah, that's not sustainable, really. You know, it's easier for me to, like, arrange my life kind of at home.
Michelle Tea: Do you have, like, a little spiritual practice or anything when you are at home? Or what does that look like? I know it can be personal, but...
Perfume Genius: I do now. Yeah, I did a dance piece and I was dancing, fully dancing with a company and singing, too, and something about the rehearsal - through the rehearsals and the physical part of it became like... The only other time I had felt like that was when I was writing, but it was something I could do that I didn't need a piano for. I don't know, some sort of official thing, I mean, I probably shouldn't do it at the mall, the dancing that I'm doing, but I do. It's just a way to kind of counter that feeling in my body and it's not really even dancing. I just sort of roll really slowly around. But it feels spiritual because I - I think essentially it's just a dramatic way of being really present. You know, I just like smelling, thinking about my elbow, you know, and then I feel kind of empty and I'm rolling empty and then things come in.
Michelle Tea: I love that. I mean, I feel like that's kind of like doing rituals are. I think like sometimes if I'm doing something, doing witchy things I like, you could just feel really self-conscious and goofy and be like, "What am I? Who do I think I am? What's happening?" But it really is just a moment to just be super present.
Perfume Genius: Yeah.
Michelle Tea: You know, and like tinker with things and be really super thoughtful.
Perfume Genius: For whatever is actually there.
Michelle Tea: For whatever is watching. Yeah. Whoever's behind the computer simulation.
Perfume Genius: Yeah.
Michelle Tea: Yeah. Can I read your tarot cards?
Perfume Genius: Yeah.
Michelle Tea: Do you have a question? Is there anything you want to know that you don't mind sharing with the class?
Perfume Genius: I had to like, I mean there's a lot of stuff going on but I was trying to think of something that I would include everybody in.
Michelle Tea: Right? That's that's the key to something like this.
Perfume Genius: I guess, what I've been thinking about. I feel... Like when I got sober, when I started making music, they felt like big shifts in my life, like a big pivot or a big shift. And I feel like I'm in one right now, but I don't really know if it's internal or external, like I'm having a hard time sorting through which is which.
Michelle Tea: So you're - you're unsure if, like you should be sort of pursuing a new direction, like personally or if you should be pursuing a new direction professionally? Creatively?
Perfume Genius: Kind of. Yeah.
Michelle Tea: OK.
Perfume Genius: Or just interpersonally. Is it actually about other people or is it something about me? Like do I need to change where I'm living or change how I feel about where I do live? Things like that.
Michelle Tea: Alright, so this is good. I actually love helping people figure out, like, how to pick the cards, so. So. OK, so like thinking about what your options are like, well what would you do if it was this or that. So you would maybe move?
Perfume Genius: I mean, I'm just using that as an example.
Michelle Tea: Oh, okay. Well, I’m your tarot reader!
Perfume Genius: For something that's a little more personal.
Michelle Tea: OK, I get it. OK, alright, alright. We could do codes. We could do codes. So.
Perfume Genius: Codes. Yeah, like I could either... How can I do codes? It's going to be exactly like me just saying what I'm doing. I could either go somewhere I have always gone...
Michelle Tea: [laughs] OK. OK.
Perfume Genius: Or I could go somewhere I didn't think I'd ever go.
Michelle Tea: All right. This is perfect.
Perfume Genius: But it feels like I should.
Michelle Tea: So why don't you shuffle the cards thinking, what does it look like if I continue to go where I have always gone? OK, so now I'm going to pick three cards for that up here and now compare and contrast shuffle asking, what does it look like if I go somewhere I have never gone before?
So to continue going where you've gone, Wealth. Ten of Disks. Love, Two of Cups. And yet the Prince of Cups says it's not enough. You know, it's interesting. It's interesting. The Ten of Cups, I mean, the Ten of Disks means that like something has really been established, like whatever this - this thing is that you've been doing this place you've been going, like you've really mastered it. You know, like it's very it's paid off for you. And you can - you can kind of just retire there for the rest of your life if you want. And there's love there. It's not like you're not necessarily - even though it might be a little less exciting than something new, you're not totally bored. I mean, there's an active appreciation for it and it's probably mutual. It gives you something as well. But that Prince of Cups is just not happy and he kind of knows he needs to make a change. And he's just scared to do it. He's just scared to do it. He's, you know, the idea of this guy. He's on this big bird — you guys, I don’t know why I’m showing it you, you probably can’t see — and the bird's magic and it can go very high in the air or it could go very deep into the ocean. And he's not doing either because he's sort of hemming and hawing. He's like, "Oh, God, but what if I go too high and, you know, Icarus or what if I go too deep and, you know, Blobfish," you know, creepy. So he's not doing anything, he's skimming the surface. So it's telling a complicated story.
Like initially I'd be like, “Oh yeah, well, of course you should stay where you are.” But just sort of almost like Rachel True was just talking about, it's like if you know in your gut that it's not enough, what does it look like for you to go somewhere new? The Aeon. Oh, fuck. Wow... wow! OK, if we were in Vegas right now, you would have just won so much money. Holy shit. OK, so three major arcana cards, The Aeon, which is about a powerful new beginning, one that you might not even understand if you're ready for. But it's sort of just happening. The Universe, which is the biggest cosmic "yes" of the - of the tarot. It's like, absolutely. It's your destiny. Yes, yes, yes. And then just in case that's not enough for you, Fortune like this is good. This is a good thing. Whoa. This is... I, as a tarot reader, love when the readings are like this because it's like a no-brainer. It's like, yes, absolutely. Like all respect to the wealth that you have accumulated over here and you're going to bring that with you. You know, all - all respect to the love. You know, you appreciate that. But this is like... It's bigger than... it's kind of about you walking into your destiny. And I think that if — I wonder if, as you know, do you think Libras really are indecisive or you think that's bad PR?
Perfume Genius: I mean, I don't really have anything to compare it to, I think of somebody else and wonder if I'm more or less.
Michelle Tea: Right, right, right. You don't need to do.
Perfume Genius: Well, I guess I'm being indecisive about whether I'm indecisive or not.
Michelle Tea: Yeah, well, but I mean, it is it makes sense to be indecisive before making a giant life change. But also, I wonder if it's like how much of it is also just like habit or nature. But it's, yeah. .
Perfume Genius: Yeah. This is going to be exploratory and messy.
Michelle Tea: But not maybe as much as you think. Yeah, yeah, but first, yeah, but like, I feel like, whoa, because here's the thing with this, this Aeon card, you can see in the back there is the that's the old pharaoh and then there's this like little ghost of like the new baby pharaoh with his finger in his mouth. And so he's the new leader. And you're like, how the fuck are you going to lead Egypt? You're like five years old, but he's going to do it because it's his destiny. He's going to grow into it.
Perfume Genius: I like him. I like him.
Michelle Tea: Yeah, he's adorable. Totally, baby king that you want ruling your land. So that's you. You're going to be the baby king in a new landscape. You're not going to really be knowing what you're doing, but you just have to trust that it's meant to be. And I mean, these are heavy destiny cards. So what I'm thinking is that, like, if you... You probably really do know in your gut that, like, this is the direction you should go in and it's not about making a decision or not. It's just it's almost just about surrendering to your destiny, allowing what you know is happening to happen, allow the direction that you know you're being drawn to just pull you, pull you.
Perfume Genius: I guess, I mean, you're sober. So allowing things to pull me, that's traditionally been really unsafe.
Michelle Tea: Sure.
Perfume Genius: You know what I mean? So.
Michelle Tea: Totally.
Perfume Genius: The only way I feel like that I — it's not true, but it feels like it's true. The only way that I've maintained that I have built this is by kind of living against my instincts and... Yeah, living against my instincts so that I don't just destroy anything, I don't destroy me, I don't destroy my partner, I don't - I pay rent, I keep making music, you know? And so this idea that I could let some of that down in which I've done, in which the world has done lately, and then some, like latent or not latent, whatever stuff starts kind of creeping up, but kind of listening to that stuff feels dangerous.
Michelle Tea: I really understand that and - and there is fear in this Prince of Cups card, you know, it's not for nothing that he's not making a decision. He is worried, you know, because the stakes feel high, but it is - it is - you know, and I totally get what you're saying about being an alcoholic, too, it's like really hard to tell like, “Is this just me being, like, wanting to blow up my life or am I really like this is my one precious human life? Should I take a chance and go over here?” But that's why it's so helpful to have tarot cards when you can't make your own decision. You can just pull tarot cards and it looks really, really good for you. It does not look like an unhealthy thing, you know, and it looks like, you know, you might just be surrendering to the higher forces in your life, you know, in a - in a good way, not surrendering to your own inner, just like, demons. I see no demons here.
Perfume Genius: Okay, I'll do it.
Michelle Tea: Yeah! Hooray. Oh, my God. Thank you so much for letting me read for you. I'm excited to see what this is. Just as somebody who observes your life from afar in a noncreepy way.
Perfume Genius: There'll be a record, probably.
Michelle Tea: There'll be a record?
Perfume Genius: Yeah.
Michelle Tea: Yes. Very exciting. Well, gosh, thank you so much for taking time out of your day to come here and hang out with all of us.
Perfume Genius: Yeah. Thank you for having me. Thank you.
Michelle Tea: It’s been really sweet to have you here.
[Music]
Michelle Tea: Thanks for tuning into Your Magic. Make sure you follow us on Twitter and Instagram @thisisyourmagic. You can subscribe to us right here on Spotify, you guys — do what you need to do to never miss an episode. And sign up for our newsletter at thisisyourmagic.com and get even more musings from our team of spiritual seekers. And you can send us a note at hello@thisisyourmagic.com, we’d love to hear from you.
This episode was produced and edited by Molly Elizalde, Tony Gannon, and Vera Blossom. We got production support from Raven Yamamoto. Our executive producers are Ben Cooley, myself, and Molly Elizalde and our original theme music is by John Kimbrough. Thanks for listening.
Tune in next week for a spooky conversation with Morbid Podcast co-host Ash Kell. Thanks for listening!