Virgie Tovar: Gossip Is a Spiritual Practice

Asking for help is not a sign of weakness — it's a sign of strength. In this episode, activist, speaker, teacher, and writer Virgie Tovar joins host Michelle Tea for a conversation about the magic of science, the dangers of diet culture, and the power of pleasure. Then, Bran Taylor helps us turn our emotions into powerful energy for change with a spell.

 Virgie Tovar: One of the principles of magic that I subscribe to and that I think is so powerful is the notion of the interconnectivity of all things. The idea that plants and the trees and the oceans and the human body and the galaxy and stars, that they're all connected, that there is no difference.

[Music]

Michelle Tea: This is Your Magic. I’m Michelle Tea. Today I’m pulling cards for Virgie Tovar, the speaker, teacher, writer, and podcaster whose activism in the fat-positivity space is intersectional, confrontational, intellectual, and deeply pleasure-centric. We’re going to talk about miracles, hunger, and intuition. 

After that we’re visited by Bran Taylor, a queer witch, crossroads worker, and ritual chandler at Magic Hour. They have a spell that helps us channel our big emotions into powerful energy for change.

Stay with us.

[Music]

Michelle Tea: Okay, I’m going to take what might be a controversial stance in the woo community. It’s certainly been a controversial stance in my family. And that is: Forgiveness is Overrated. 

When I was younger, a man in my family took some pretty disturbing liberties with my person. It created a culture of secrecy and fear in my home that festered and really impacted my mental health. Pushed to question my reality, my intuition was decimated. A lot of my magic work as an adult has been about restoring my sixth sense, learning to feel it again, and to trust it.

When the guy was finally busted, he did what a lot of busted creeps do — he apologized profusely. Was he sorry? Probably. I believe his story and experience are actually quite complicated, and that he had his own torments. But guess what? Not my problem. In a perfect world the sorry man would be removed from my reality, so that I could get support and heal. But I think we know that this world is pretty imperfect.

The thing that really got to me, and it actually still makes me sting with injustice when I think about it, is how pressured I was to forgive him. My anger, I was told, was toxic. It is true that anger and resentment are powerful magics, and carry a tremendously potent charge. In this way they are fantastic tools to use in short bursts — for self-protection, to push for justice, to guard the vulnerable. Make them your main energy and sure, it’s likely to turn on you. But they have their place. When my family insisted I trade my sacred anger for trumped-up forgiveness, it just made me more angry. It would have made everyone else’s lives a lot easier if I had been forgiving, which in my alcoholic New England family is a little synonymous with forgetting. But I felt my anger like a furious goddexx in my heart demanding that I be made safe and that my trespasser have some consequences. My refusal to forgive him caused me to be estranged from my family for quite some time. 

Maybe I’m just a rebellious Aquarian, but that experience has made me a little suspicious about the reverence with which Forgiveness is treated in our culture. In a culture rife with systemic injustice, where accountability is tough to come by, when I see forgiveness being pushed it makes me ask, like, at whose expense? Who benefits from the forgiveness? Did they earn it? Who is granting the forgiveness? Were they coerced? 

I want in my magic toolbox all the devices I might need as I move through this life. There is no good or bad magic, no light or dark, certainly no black or white. There is only energy, energy that we try to use for our highest good, and what that might be is sometimes a really tough call. 

Now, let’s go talk to Virgie Tovar.

[Music]

Michelle Tea: Virgie Tovar. Are you here? 

Virgie Tovar: I am here!

Michelle Tea: Oh, my God. You know what is magic, Virgie Tovar? Is your voice, your voice. 

Virgie Tovar: [laughs]

Michelle Tea: And your giggle! Your voice, your magic voice and your magic giggle. It is so amazing to hear you. Thank you so much for being a guest at Your Magic. 

Virgie Tovar: Oh, my pleasure. 

Michelle Tea: Oh, man. I guess my first, you know, opening question for you is, what is magic to you? 

Virgie Tovar: I kind of I realize it's like one of the things that I'm fascinated by is physics. OK so like we have this concept called physics. But other people perhaps throughout time have called it magic. Right? Like we have we have all these things that we have all these sort of science-y, like we imagine like a white man in a lab coat, like talking about stuff. 

But it's like, you know, I think that not only in other parts of the world right now and certainly I think in the West, perhaps historically, a lot of these forces were considered magic and so in - in a similar way, I do think of physics and magic as connected...in the sense that like, right, like they are a governing forces. 

Michelle Tea: Yes. 

Virgie Tovar: Like there are things that the universe and humans and plants and trees — like, everything is governed by. I kind of think of it as, you know, like it shapes the universe. And I. So I think, like, in that way, I kind of see it in the same way that I maybe conceptualize gravity or something like that.  But it's kind of like more than that, too. I mean, I do think that... I do think that magic has a sort of positive force and I think the like, when we do magic, when we engage in magic, we actually kind of shape the universe.  It's all around us all the time. And so, you know, for me, the sort of gorgeous edge to everything. 

Michelle Tea: Yeah!  

Virgie Tovar: Like think about the bumblebee, OK? Like a bumble bee is like a tiny little fat bear with little wings and - and according to physics, it's not supposed to be a fly because it's too big. But it does. So like that for me, I'm just like what? I mean, that tiny, tiny example of magic. I'm just like, you know, how could we deny that we live in a magical universe if we have actual creatures that are all around us that defy physics? Like, what is that thing? That’s a tiny, tiny example but like, that's kind of what magic means to me.

Michelle Tea: I love it. I love it. And I'm so down with the physics tip. I love to think of science as like it's trying to - it's kind of mapping the mystery. Right? It's mapping the magic, you know? I like - I like thinking of magic and science sort of intertwined in that cool way and I do think a lot of things that are magical are just scientific things that we haven't - we haven't gotten the science for it. Right? 

Virgie Tovar: Right. Well, and some of it is like literally just words that have been put to magical phenomenon and then we call it like, you know, empirical. And I'm just like just because you can explain it with your words doesn't mean that it's not, like, completely wild. I think about like, like a cassowary or a giraffe. What the fuck is that? What are these things? Yeah, you can taxonomize it. You can understand that it comes from dinosaurs. You can know how it has babies. That doesn't mean you get it. 

I think like, some of it is like I agree like that some of this stuff is just like mystery. We don't have language for it and even science-y dudes get it and then there's stuff where it's like even if you understand and can map every single part of that creature, that phenomenon's reality, I mean, it doesn't matter. Like it's wild, you know? Yes. 

Michelle Tea: Yes. Thank you for invoking the cassowary. I mean, that bird is a trip. Yes. And it's..the thing is like, it's like if we - if we had located another planet with life on it and saw a cassowary, we would be like WTF. Look at this alien creature. 

Virgie Tovar: Totally!

Michelle Tea: What is the spiritual or religious story of your family? 

Virgie Tovar: Okay, so it’s kind of like you know... it’s - it’s - it immediately actually brings up another side of magic, which is that like, you know, I was raised by Mexican immigrants and in Mexico, as well as a lot of other parts of the world, like the magical, the inexplicable and the observable empirical are — there's not a binary the way that there kind of is in the United States. 

Michelle Tea: Right. 

Virgie Tovar: So, like, for instance. It's totally possible that, like, your uncle could die of the evil eye and that's discussed with the same earnestness as like anything else, you know? 

Michelle Tea: Oh my god, yes. 

Virgie Tovar: The short answer is I was raised Pentecostal, which is like the super stifling sect of Christianity. And most people are really surprised to hear, like, having been raised by Mexican immigrants that I wasn't raised Catholic and the interesting story there is that — so my great grandmother was the last practitioner of Mexican Catholicism, which is very focused on the Virgin of Guadalupe and like the relationship to and engagement with like that figure, that feminine figure. 

So the story goes that my great grandmother was... And I mean right, like Christianity is both, you know, it's religious, but it's also cultural in Mexico. So, you know, I don't know the level of - of like engagement that my great grandmother had with the church, like the Catholic Church or whatnot. But she was a devout Virgin of Guadalupe worshiper and devout Catholic and my grandfather was sort of known for being more of like kind of this like, you know, sort of somebody who was like not a part of the church. Maybe what we'd call an agnostic in Mexico, it's almost — not quite a philanderer, but somebody who's a little bit like associated with like, oh, that person isn't a churchgoing person, which has a little bit of a disparaging tone to it. 

But anyway he was kind of known for being like a musician. Very handsome and then there was this traveling Christian dude who was going all through Mexico and performing miracles. So the story goes that my great grandfather is like, you know, off playing guitar like an amazing, you know, whatever in like a bar somewhere. 

Michelle Tea: Being handsome.

Virgie Tovar: Yes! And my great grandmother is like devoutly worshiping, you know, the Virgin of Guadalupe. And then her brother — my great, great uncle, I don't even know — her brother had lost his vision. And it was like he was born sighted and then he was slowly losing his vision and he was beginning to sort of get into...like he wasn't, it wasn't a known fact yet, but there were sort of suspicions about it because he had started to change a little bit of his behavior. 

And - and then, you know, the traveler comes through their town of like Monterrey, like North Mexico, and is like, I will heal anyone who has an affliction and my great grandmother says, you know, heal my brother's blindness. And he does. And then in that moment, my great grandfather is there and he witnesses this and he falls to his knees and says, "I am dedicating my life to whatever religion you practice." And then he became a proselytizing Pentecostal pastor who traveled all over Mexico and did like revivals and like was in Texas and it was just like wild. 

So he became this like super religious man and so I was raised by his youngest daughter, my grandmother. And so, you know, part of - part of like his specter was always there because she was so proud of his success. Like he started so many churches and she sort of — and there's all these documents of like, you know, these revivals that he would lead and these — and he had a newsletter that he wrote. 

And so it's just and he like, you know, put aside everything. Put aside the guitar, put it… Well, that's - that's not totally fair. He began to play in church like he no longer drank and all these kinds of things and so that's kind of the background of my religious, you know, how my family converted from Catholicism and I'm - I always think about that moment of like, what was it like for my great grandmother to sort of be told, like, guess what? This like feminine focused religious practice you have it's like gone now and now we're going to, like, worship this dude. Maybe it wasn't a big deal for her, but something in my like in my, you know, epigenetic knowledge or something is like she probably experienced it as a massive betrayal. 

Like I just can't imagine, like being a woman in the 1910s, 1920s allowed to have this goddess worship almost and like how affirming that must have been even in, like maybe a subconscious way and then to have your husband, who you can't really defy, tell you that you don't get to do that anymore. And now your job is to be like essentially like a servant to a bunch of people and this God that you don't really know.

Like very early on, by the time I was like ten or eleven, I began to question the morals of what I was being taught.

Michelle Tea: It's just making me think of like how like an organized religions tend to be so patriarchal and oppressive and then it makes me think of like magic and and witchcraft and that those kind of traditions as being like disorganized religion, like feminist, disorganized religion, you know, where it's like more chaotic and individualistic.

Virgie Tovar: You know, essentially, I would say any practice that connects feminine people — and I think, you know, all people to a certain extent. But I think because of the history of misogyny and sexism, particularly feminine people with their intuition is - is a magical practice. And I see things like, you know, reflective things, self reflective things like tarot, like journaling, you know, like processing, like talking shit. I see these - I see these as magical processes... 

Michelle Tea: So are you telling me that gossip is part of your spiritual practice? 

Virgie Tovar: Yes, I mean, obvi! 

Michelle Tea: I'm down with that.

Virgie Tovar: I feel like you and I might have talked about this at one point, but there's actual research, literally like academics doing research on the sociology and the social role of gossip among marginalized people and how it's a way of like sharing information in an underground sort of information tunnel and getting affirmation about like your suspicions about certain people and and how it's really only WASPs who don't gossip is what the research — kinda in conclusion. And so, you know, as somebody who's not a WASP, like, of course, that's part of my magical practice. 

Michelle Tea: I love it. I'm wondering if you can elaborate on how diet culture impacts magic. People's magic. 

Virgie Tovar: Yeah, I mean, diet culture, like, viciously steals people's magic. One of the first things that magic… One of the principles of magic that - that I subscribe to and that I think is so powerful is - is the notion of the interconnectivity of all things. You know, the idea that, like, you know, that the plants and the trees and the oceans and the human body and the galaxy and stars, that they're all connected, that there is no difference, that we're all made of the same thing — which again, is physics, but also magic. But, you know, like... 

And I think that diet culture really comes from a very colonialist patriarchal tradition, which is one of hierarchy, which is absolutely — it's about cutting off the interconnectivity of all things and it's about - it's about positioning human and particularly masculine dominion over all things like over the natural world and diet culture really comes from - from that - from that ideology, right? And the way that it shows up is, is the notion of mind over matter. So one of the first things that diet culture does, that it undercuts your ability to have a beautiful and generative and pleasure-driven relationship to hunger and to eating, which are - which are not only like necessary for survival, but are literally biologically designed to create pleasure. 

And so diet culture goes in and says, nope, that process has to be regulated, has to be controlled and has to be guilt-ridden. And right, like the same in the same way that - it's the same methodology around sexuality, right?

Michelle Tea: It is, yeah.

Virgie Tovar: The idea that you have to control sexuality and this thing that was biologically designed to help you connect to others and to connect to yourself and to connect to like, you know, your magic is something that has to be regulated and controlled. And specifically, you know, I think that there's this really explicit connection to racism in that, in the sense that, like, the whole reason that mind over matter, I think became so important and is still so important in our culture is because of the idea that - that, like, white men deserve to take over and inherit the Earth because they have that willpower and that it is like, you know, brown people and Black people who don't — who have that more animal relationship to the body and to earth and therefore, you know, they need to be controlled. And so a lot of times like that, that connection like, right? So diet culture is already always about a practice of racism and it's already always about a practice of like having a colonial relationship to the body. 

Diet culture is like a master gas lighter in the sense that, like, you know, one of the first things that people are taught around diet culture is like you - you cannot trust your own hunger, which is - which essentially is saying you cannot trust your body, you cannot trust your instincts. You always have to govern those things and - and sort of like that that full separation from the natural world, including our own animal bodies, is like a really fast way to be entirely disconnected from yourself. 

[Music]

Michelle Tea: I got a deck of tarot cards here, Virgie, do you want me to pull some cards for you? 

Virgie Tovar: Yes, I would love that. 

Michelle Tea: What would you like to — what should we pull about? 

Virgie Tovar: I doubt… My first thought was like, you know… I am kind of curious about like one transition that I'm in right now that's really terrifying and really.... mostly it's just terrifying right now. But I'm kind of aware that it's like leaning towards generative. But it's one of finally accepting that, you know, I don't have to fight battles alone and I mean, literally, like three days ago I wrote in my Google calendar, I was like "day that I welcomed in the-  the notion that I need other people.". 

Michelle Tea: Oh that's beautiful. 

Virgie Tovar: I mean I’ve always known it, but it's always been a very reluctant, not even acceptance. Almost like sort of like a reluctant like, you know, it would be rude to believe that I like got here by myself and I refuse to be that person. But also, like, my God, I hate relying on other people for literally anything and so that transition into this... I don't know, like that's kind of like my headspace is like, you know what like maybe the question would be like, what are the tools I need? What, like what...What is this... Where is this process heading? I don't know, like, is that enough? 

Michelle Tea: I do want to ask you what - where do you think the apprehension to rely on other folks, like where does that come from. Have you pinpointed that in yourself? 

Virgie Tovar:  Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm - it's - I mean, you know, like I'm a hugely parentified... Like I was parentified in childhood. I am a recovering adult child of alcoholic dysfunctional family people. So. Yeah. I had to be my own mom when I was like five. 

Michelle Tea: Yes. 

Virgie Tovar: So it comes from that! And the sense of like that, that everything feels really high stakes, like one hundred percent of the time because it's like if I don't do the thing...Like, me, personally, if I don't take care of it, the world's gonna fall apart. 

Michelle Tea: I do. I do. That's a really classic...when when kids are given way too much responsibility and families like that's just that's a classic way that you turn out as an adult. 

I'm going to pick some cards and just to see like what is this path look like? As you continue on it. And then, I'm going to pick cards from an Oracle deck I have that I really love that will offer sort of suggestions of like what different kind of energies and practices can support you. Oh my god, it’s my pleasure. Okay so now I’m just shuffling and asking the deck... 

So. Oh, wow. So Virgie the first card that I pulled for you is The Chariot, which is really great. 

Virgie Tovar: Wow! 

Michelle Tea: I'm going to pull all three and then get a little deeper into each of them. So the first card is The Chariot. Oh, my God. The second card is the Six of Cups, which in this deck is titled Pleasure. OK? Yes. And it's Sun in Scorpio. And then your final card is the Hermit. This is beautiful. This is so beautiful. 

So, The Chariot is so interesting because it's a totally positive card, right? And it - it's...your victory is assured when you get the Chariot card. But it's full title is The Chariot of War. So it is talking about a fight like you're fighting against something, right? And it's like what you're fighting for right now is like your pleasure. Like - because it is a pleasure. It's an emotional pleasure when you allow yourself to be vulnerable, when you allow yourself to like, you know, Barbra said it: People who need people, they’re the luckiest people on earth, right? So in the chariot - it’s Cancer and it’s an it's an emotional water sign. So... but it's, you know, the charioteer in the card is wearing this golden armor and Cancers are the crab. So, you know, they are this little creature that is so tender that it comes with the shell. So it's very interesting. It's like this is a card that's a lot about feeling like you need to be self-protective. But it's also about like.... in general when - when the Chariot card comes up, it's like you're on a journey and you're fighting for something and it might be a little bit of a bumpy ride, but you are so committed. You're holding on like the crab does. And - and that's - and that's your, that's your Taurus, you know, Taurus nature. I get that you're not stubborn about, like, intellectual areas. You know, you're really open to points of view. But I do think that that stubbornness might come through for you in like your dedication to work and to not being afraid of hard work, you know? In this deck, the Thoth deck, the charioteers also holding what is supposed to be an amethyst bowl full of blood. It's a little goth for you there, but it's about sacrifice. So it's a sacrifice to get to this higher, higher ground and that higher ground is a place of pleasure, you know? Where you're able to access like a deeper emotional...it's it's Sun in Scorpio. Scorpios are very deep right? Their emotions run deep and their connections to other people run really deep and that the fact that the card is called Pleasure, it's like this is very away from that Queen of Swords card, which is very icy and intellectual. 

You know, you're getting these warm emotional cards and then you get the Hermit which is really interesting. And I think the Hermit is coming up because, you know, the Hermit is the character who has to do some really intense work on themselves and they know that it's work that only they can do and they've got to take the space to do it, you know? And they've got to take, like, the alone time and they've got to do the work and it's an Earth sign. It's Virgo. And so it's about giving yourself the structure to kind of do that work. And, you know, the Hermit goes away because he doesn't want other people's influences. He wants to really seek out what is his core truth underneath it all. It's a really beautiful card. It's very... and you know, the rendering of it in this deck, there's a - it's also about fearlessness. He has the three-headed hound of hell, sort of like, you know, jumping on his leg and he's just ignoring it. And he's like, ignore it. You know, he's like, hey, okay, it's scary, I get it. It’s scary. But, you know, like, this is my path and I'm really dedicated to it. And it's about...he's holding a lantern and the Hermit in all Tarot I think it's always holding a lantern and that's just about finding your inner light, you know? And so this is beautiful. I love this path for you.

I'm now going to pick out, if you'd like, this Oracle deck and it's called Vessel. So I'm gonna just shuffle, just asking. OK, we see that Virgie is on this journey. She's in the chariot. She's headed toward pleasure. She might have to stop off at a roadside cave every now and then and like, let her hermit. Let her hermit out. 

Your first card that you've got is called Trust. And it's this picture of this, yeah, this like feminine person with her head back and her eyes closed and her long hair is cascading and there's like a green hand with the heart on the palm and a red hand with the heart on the palm. It's very like notebook doodle-y looking but also like mystical. 

And your second one is Begin. And it is an eight-pointed star that’s red with like bursts coming out of it likes - like rays of light and also hearts and diamonds. It's really explosive looking. 

And then you have Forgive. Deep, deep, right? Deep, deep stuff here man.

Virgie Tovar Oh, man. 

Michelle Tea: So it's like, wow, here we go. Trust. You know, and so much of the work that you do in the world is getting people to trust their intuition again and it's like you practicing that yourself, you know? And - and trusting your path that you're on and trusting the decisions that you’ve had to make. 

And then, Begin. Like every day — It just makes me think like every day we begin again, right? We begin our day anew and so, like, every day, like beginning this practice over again, right? Even though it's a path that you've been on for a while, just to know that it's like it's going to manifest in a new way every day, like new aspects of it will manifest itself. New aspects of your own interior will reveal itself. So the sense of always beginning, but in a really positive way, right? 

And then Forgive. I'm sorry you got the Forgiveness card. I think forgiveness is highly overrated in the - in the spiritual community, frankly. I think we need to make some more room for holy resentment. But, you know, there...

Virgie Tovar: Yes! 

Michelle Tea: You know what it is, Virgie? I just think everything has a time and a place and you can't force forgive - forgiveness, right? 

Virgie Tovar: Well, Michelle it might be like forgiving myself. I mean, we can - we can claim that process. But like when you - when you - when you told me that it was forgive my brain was immediately like, you know — there's obviously the traditional understanding of, like, forgiving the people who wronged you. But it's also like it can be forgiving ourselves. It can be like, you know, just because they forgive the wrongdoer doesn't mean I have to do anything else, you know? Like I could just make that gift for myself. I don't have to be about doing anything in the physical world with them. 

Michelle Tea: Yeah absolutely. You can forgive somebody and it doesn't, you know, mean you have to be like be their bestie afterwards. You can just sort of acknowledge like it's OK. 

Virgie Tovar: Yes! 

Michelle Tea: Like, I understand complicated forces, you know, worked together to make this terrible situation happen. Maybe for both of us. And I release — I'm releasing myself from it. 

Virgie Tovar: Yeah. Phew. 

Michelle Tea: Yeah. Seriously. And, you know, something? What’s really interesting is I picked three cards from each deck. And so underneath the Chariot is Trust. And I feel like - I feel like they're having a little bit of a relationship. So it's like trusting your journey, trusting, trusting what you're - the direction that you're heading and trusting the gusto that you're sort of applying to this path. 

And then underneath Pleasure is Begin, right? So begin a deeper exploration of pleasure, a deeper, you know, reverence of pleasure. 

And then underneath the Hermit is Forgive. So it is this sort of like like going off and it's very internal. It's an internal process where you need your internal light to guide you. And know that it's like it's coming purely from you and it's not a pressure from like the culture because I feel like the culture puts a lot of pressure of forgiveness as a virtue. And, you know, and I just I'm very suspicious...

Virgie Tovar: Oh, it does. Agreed! 

Michelle Tea: And you know I just feel like who does that serve? You know, let’s deconstruct the power dynamics and who that benefits. But, you know, it is also true that resentment can harm us internally. So I love this. I love this for you. It's really deep and it’s really beautiful. 

Virgie Tovar: Oh, I've been like literally tearing up and trying to like I just, you know, like the whole time. So it's I feel - I feel like it really so well resonated really deeply, so thank you.

[Music]

Bran Taylor: Hello, listeners. This is Bran and I do magical work under the name Magic Hour, and this is a spell to create space for the dark. 

Big, powerful emotions can push us into a new direction. They are a catalyst for transformation. They help raise our heart rate, spark our passions and fuel our voice for change. And this change leads to growth. Growth can ignite revolution and revolution can bring much needed justice. For inspiration, envision those revolutionary people who allow their big emotions to be expressed and felt deeply, those who channel it through activism and through their art. 

Now, I believe all emotions are on a continuum, and I like to think of this continuum as a rainbow, feelings like happiness, joy and excitement are part of the day rainbow. And feelings like rage, anger and grief are part of the night rainbow. All emotions are valid and exist here in a nonjudgment zone. Both sides of the rainbow meet at the crossroads of the Earth to form a full and beautiful circle.

Now, to magically work with the darkness, we need to make space for it. For this spell, we're going to make an altar space to honor the dark and to create a place to express the emotions of the night rainbow. You will need an offering for the dark goddess or deity that you work with. Today, I'm using black hellebore flowers from my garden. A pen and paper, a bowl of salt water, a dark colored rock or two. I'm using a black tourmaline and a gray river rock. A black or dark colored candle. 

Holding the intention of honoring the darkness, arrange the items on your altar one at a time. As you place the offering for the dark goddess, imagine the grand doorway to spirit easily opening for you. 

As you place the salty cauldron, think or say the words, “My grief and fear is sacred.” 

As you place the strong rocks, think or say the words, “My disgust and fatigue is sacred.”

As you place and light the candle of change, think or say the words, “My anger and rage is sacred.” 

Lastly, we're going to charge the altar with a poem by Wendell Berry. Write this poem on a piece of paper and place it directly on your altar. Repeat these words whenever you want to magically connect with the dark places. 

“To go in the dark with a light is to know the light. To know the dark, go dark. Go without sight. And find that the dark, too, blooms and sings and is traveled by dark feet and dark wings.”

Find yourself using this altar whenever you need a space to express your shadow places and big emotions. Cry, scream, write or sing. Spirit can handle it. For here, your magic honors the complexities of the powerful dark. 

[Music]

Michelle Tea: Thank you Bran Taylor! I love that so much, the whole concept of the Day Rainbow and the Night Rainbow. It’s such a simple and strong way to think about the polarities of our emotions. If you want more of Bran’s magic wisdom in your life, please check out Magic Hour, their enchanted candle company. Those candles are really special. 

[Music]

Michelle Tea: Thanks for tuning into Your Magic.  Make sure you follow us on Twitter and Instagram @thisisyourmagic. You can subscribe to right here on spotify — do what you need to to never miss an episode. And sign up for our newsletter at thisisyourmagic.com and get more musings from our team of spiritual seekers. And you can email us at hello@thisisyourmagic.com, we would love to hear from you.

This episode was produced and edited by Molly Elizalde, Tony Gannon, and Raven Yamamoto. We got production support from Veronica Agard, Kristine Mar, and Vera Blossom. Our executive producers are Ben Cooley, myself, and Molly Elizalde. Our original theme music is by John Kimbrough. 

Tune in next week for a conversation with Morgan Parker. Thanks for listening!