Fran Tirado: The Devil’s Name Is on All My Paychecks
How do you separate spirituality from organized religion? Former Jesus freak and queer culture-maker Fran Tirado discusses embracing witchcraft, getting in touch with your intuition, and being a Taurus. Then, musician and writer Katie Bennett offers a spell for connecting with your truth and power.
Fran Tirado: You know, growing up, my mom and parents were always like, that's like brujeria, don't fuck with that like anything that is scary or that is witchcraft is like the devil. And so to kind of like, have a really daily practice and I guess like the way it enriches my life is something that is very full circle to me.
[Music]
Michelle Tea: Hello, and welcome to Your Magic! I’m your host, Michelle Tea, and today I am hanging out with queer culture-maker Fran Tirado, co-host of the infamous Food 4 Thot podcast and the brand new Like a Virgin audio show. We talk about meaningless hookups, Taurus dreams and intuition. And, if you’d like to boost your own sixth sense, stick around for writer and musician Katie Bennett’s simple and inspired spell for connecting with your truth and power. Stay with us.
[Music]
Michelle Tea: This episode has me thinking a lot about intuition, how constant and crucial it is, and how easily we can overlook the damage done to it. I think the first problem is, a lot of people don’t even realize they have intuition - they believe it’s the property of fortune tellers and psychics only. But they have only monetized their intuition - everyone possesses that sixth sense, has felt a strange hunch, have doggedly known something was true, in spite of forces trying to convince us otherwise.
If I may, I think our intuition’s first job, primary impulse, is to remind us we are precious, that we’re loved and love-able, worthy of joy and protection. Our intuition is, in a big way, how we know and love and look out for ourselves. When that energy gets tangled - by dysfunctional or abusive families; by racist, homophobic, and misogynisitic cultures; by educational and other systems that teach us to deny who we are and what we know, our intuition takes a big hit.
I lived a lot of my life with a stepfather who was very ill-intentioned toward me and my sister. My intuition was constantly trying to alert me, with red flag of panic, with truths that triggered fear and anxiety. I think a lot of highly intuitive people suffer from anxiety brought on by the effort of trying to shut up your psychic warning system, because, though it might be alerting you to danger, sometimes listening to your intuition, in a world that denies its existence, feels even more unsafe. That was my story.
After I confronted my stepfather my world fell apart for a while. An ongoing part of my healing has been rehabbing my intuition, doing the often mind-boggling work of differentiating my inner warning signals from legitimate anxiety. I know a lot of you listening are feeling me right now! This is a common problem; even if your intuition didn’t experience a formative trauma, the world tends to not validate or respect this way of knowing. It’s up to us to support each other’s efforts to heal our inner voices as we continue to gather the strength to, quite simply, believe in ourselves.
Here’s Fran Tirado
[Music]
Michelle Tea: Fran Tirado, who I adore. Thank you so much for being on the Your Magic podcast.
Fran Tirado: Please, it's an honor, a pleasure, a delight. I'm so happy to be here, Michelle.
Michelle Tea: And thank you for wearing your moon shirt. Those those who are listening. Of course you don't have a visual, but I get to see Fran. Why we while we chat and they're wearing this shirt that has like little crescent moons all over, it
Fran Tirado: Literally wore it for you, thinking of you and this podcast. So of course.
Michelle Tea: Honored. What is your moon sign now? I know you're a Taurus.
Fran Tirado: And I'm a Taurus
Michelle Tea: I can see you're like plants in the background. I always think of, like Taurus is like, how like home home people. I live with the Taurus. My partner's a Taurus. And like he, he literally spent the entire day yesterday rearranging the fridge and this incredible way where he put like he found like like baking trays, and he used them to like, arrange and organize like condiments and like leftovers and like. We have a whole new like fridge landscape now because of his Taurus magic.
Fran Tirado: OK, like just the description of that is erotica to me. I have a Virgo Moon and so like my Taurus, flexible to him and her likes to organize things and keep things structured. And do you have a Virgo Moon as well?
Michelle Tea: No, I don't have a Virgo Moon, but interestingly, my Venus is in the sixth house of Virgo. It's in the sign of Capricorn in the sixth house. It's like the only Earth in my well, my Saturn's in Taurus. So my Venus and my and my Saturn is the only Earth that I have, but it's life saving.
Fran Tirado: It really is. I have a friend who grew up here in L.A. that is a lot of different signs, but we're all Virgo Moon for like a cult of Virgo moons. I don't know how we found each other, but it's it's really, really like to get things done.
Michelle Tea: I love the way that life can, like, bring us brings us to like the signs that we need to be around either to, like, inspire us or balance us or, you know, whatever I've always had. I've had a lot of Tauruses in my life, and I used to have a lot of Libras in my life I've had. I've gone through periods where I had Aries in my life. I guess I needed that.
Fran Tirado: So, yeah, I really need Libras, I need Libras, I need Geminis. Because my Venus is in Gemini, my weight. Yeah, my Venus is in Gemini. So it's like my love language. I'm like, always, like wanting to talk. And that's how I kind of that's my number one, you know, I guess love language.
Michelle Tea: I love Geminis, too. They get such a bad rap, but they're they're a fantastic sign. They're they're they really I feel like they're kind of their magic. I mean, we're all magic, right? But I feel like the Gemini magic, I guess, because it's so electrical, I can really feel it from them.
I love that you're here. I'm so happy to here what. Let's talk about woo stuff. Are you? Do you consider yourself like a witch or I don't know a priestess or what? What's your spiritual jam in these days?
Fran Tirado: Yeah. You know, it's it's kind of like maybe imposter syndrome to say, like, I don't know if I identify as a witch because like, you know, it's more like I still feel like I'm learning. I'm very much so a student of life, a seeker. I'm always looking for things to like, make sense of this like crazy world we live in and a lot of those, I would say the majority of those things are tarot and astrology and witchcraft and like the things that I don't know are just like fun to play and help me gain that sense of like magic and manifestation that I really lacked. Like in my childhood, I grew up really, really sheltered and didn't have. I actually what I should say is like I had to read the first four Harry, first four Harry Potter books in secret because like they were forbidden from my household, like could it watch like Bed Knobs and Broomsticks? I had never seen What's the Bette Midler witch movie?
Michelle Tea: Is it Hocus Pocus?
Fran Tirado: Hocus Pocus? I hadn't seen Hocus Pocus until, like a few years ago because it was like forbidden from our house. And so, you know, growing up, my mom and parents were always like, that's like brujeria, you know, like, you don't fuck with that like anything that is scary or that is witchcraft is like the devil. And so to kind of like, have a really kind of daily practice and I guess like the way it enriches my life is something that is very full circle to me.
Michelle Tea: I just feel like some people are really touched by magic and it does it, you know, like whether or not like magic chooses them, whether or not they they seek it out. And you seem like one of those people to me, you have that.
Fran Tirado: I mean, I was like a Jesus freak for like 17 years. Like Jesus camp. Seven years in a row, I went to church two to three times a week. I wanted to be a youth pastor when I, when I grew up, went on missions, trips to like Guatemala and Japan to like, teach teens about like Jesus. Like I really like could not have been more like the opposite of like what I do now. It's just like everything I do is just really invested in sin. It's like, you know, the devil's name is on all of my paychecks, mama, you know, just a signature signed sealed deliver. And so I think that, you know, when I left my faith really quickly as a teen like right at the same time that I came out of the closet, I, you know, had this kind of like, I think a lot of people who used to be Jesus freaks, like had this kind of like God shaped hole and your in your being. You have this huge like psychological and spiritual space that is no longer occupied by like the Bible. And yeah, I just I think that like as I, you know, grew into understanding spirituality as something that is not always attached to organized religion. That is when I really started to fall in love with the teachings of honestly, people like you, Michelle, and people like my friend Chani, Jessica Dore. Sarah Faith Goddess Singer like a lot of those folks who really do a lot to pop, a lot of queer witches that popularized this work and and help make it feel accessible and even a little less woo-woo, because I feel like it gets a bad rap of being this tool of fortune-telling and divination and, you know, like kind of spells and like, it is those things sometimes. But also it's just it can be as simple as like making your breakfast in the morning. And I think that's really helpful for me to kind of, I guess, feel grounded and and to know where I'm going.
Michelle Tea: I think the really fun thing about being engaged in these kind of practices, these witchy practices is at some point you realize like that sort of reverence or mindfulness that you bring to maybe doing a little ritual or some little craft in front of your altar. You can actually like that is mobile. You can bring that to any aspect of your life, you know, and I feel like it's a kind of mindfulness, I guess. But yeah, you can. You can bring those intentions to like taking a shower, you know, washing your hair like the most mundane things. And I really like how it makes. I don't know. It just centers us in our in our kind of boring sometimes lives and forces us to see that everything has the potential for magic. It's like all around us all the time.
It's like not everything needs to be super rational, like, you can just do something because it feels good or it's fun. Like, I just like to think that we're all living in a computer simulation anyway, and nothing is that important. So if it's like enjoyable to like, you know, play with herbs and candles in front of my altar, then I'm going to do it, you know, because it like gives me pleasure.
Fran Tirado: And I think that's part of what has helped me, like, lean into my intuition and like the things that that, like make me the happiest or like the things that I previously believed to be impossible. Like, I think a lot about my friend Tourmaline, who like, kind of has this, she has this tenet. She always talks about where she says, like, you know, suspend the disbelief for 30 days, even if just for 30 days that, like your dreams are not possible. You know, like if for 30 days, you could actually believe in the things that you put aside, how would you live your life differently? And I think that if there are a lot of people that really would live their life differently if they if they did that, as corny as it sounds, sometimes it sounds very like divorcé a self-help book. But like it, really, it really is like sometimes that easy. I think that like, there is a kind of rigidity and a very like black and white kind of thinking that we've all evolved to adapt to. And we all think that things are good or they're bad or they work or they don't work. Or this is my belief and that's your belief. And like I structural oppression and like the happiness of our daily lives would be so much more resolved if we had a fluidity in the way we kind of like, think about what's possible, what's not possible, what we believe, what we don't believe in. And I think that Magic, Magic and the and astrology and all those things have really helped me kind of, I don't know, murk the lines of, like what I previously thought was real or not real.
Michelle Tea: I'm really curious about your tarot journey and what deck are you working with like?
Fran Tirado: So I'm still working with the Rider Waite. Actually, I think the symbology of the right or way is amazing. And I mean, when did modern tarot come out? I feel like I've only been practicing since then or a little bit.
I was pulling a card a day. I, you know, dove deep into like the cards and tried to like, make notes. I have this. Jessica Dore has this really good advice about how if you have a notebook and you dedicate, you know, one page to each card in the tarot, you can accrue, you know, little notes and learnings as you go along in your life and like Mark under each card, like what you're learning. And so I've been doing that and trying to like kind of keep my practice there, like my my storytelling, what I do with each card. But yeah, for me, like whenever I read someone's tarot, which I would like to do more often, honestly, because I'm getting good at it, I'm not going to lie, Michelle.
Michelle Tea: Oh, I love that.
Fran Tirado: I always say to them, You know, I say, you know, I don't I don't use tarot as a as a mode of divination and fortune-telling. But if you see it that way, that's OK. I think that the most helpful way to understand tarot is as a practice in storytelling and honestly supplementary to like therapy and to to that that kind of self work that we do every day and to manifesting to be honest, because like the tarot can tell you, you know, you're going to win life and you're going to succeed, but it's not going to happen if you don't do anything about it, right?
Michelle Tea: Totally.
Fran Tirado: And so I think I kind of that's a really helpful tool for me. I think the cards kind of usually tend to unravel a lot of things that I wouldn't have thought about before because our minds are so, as I said, like linear and black and white. And so I think the cards help introduce, you know, facets of your life that you otherwise would not have been thinking about.
Michelle Tea: I think so too. And I always one thing that I'm always surprised about with the tarot is that like it's not. I mean, we're using our intuition to work with it. It's so, so much of what it says sometimes feels counterintuitive, you know, like I find myself because I do give a lot of tarot readings to like other people where it will be like, Yeah, this path actually looks really hard for you, but you're supposed to be on it like that is sometimes the takeaway. And I feel like, you know, we sometimes if we're not thinking about it, we just look to the tarot to tell us everything's going to be OK. Or like, Am I going to get good cards? Like, Did I win? You know? And it's like, you know, this is like your spiritual journey, really what we're talking about here. And sometimes you get a lot of gifts from a harder path. It's really funny. Like I, I find myself often enough being like, Yeah, the tarot is saying, you should do this thing. I am saying, you shouldn't like this look crazy, but the tarot saying you should do it.
Fran Tirado: That's amazing. I I feel like that is like when tarot is at its best, when it's like counterintuitive, you know, it's like kind of contradicting like the ways that you were originally thinking about it.
[Music]
Michelle Tea: Do you do you have a question for the tarot Fran? Because I would love to pick cards for you?
Fran Tirado: OK, well, I was either going to ask about like, you know, love because I really well, it has to be a yes or no question doesn't it?
Michelle Tea: We can work with that. We can figure, we can figure it out sometime. I mean, yes or no questions are great, but then it can also sometimes be like, what's the energy?
Fran Tirado: Yeah.
Michelle Tea: What's the vibe you know, what does it look like?
Fran Tirado: I have been in like a relationship dry spell for a very long time. If I if I'm being honest and I only recently started proactively dating again and trying to, you know, like meet people. And because, like previously, I was just so addicted to my work that I didn't care about relationships, which was not healthy. But yeah, so as I'm reentering it, it's just really hard and I I feel like it's never going to happen for me. You know, I just like, you know, give up all hope on love is like where I'm like, where I'm at.
Michelle Tea: Oh my God, you seem like the most eligible bachelorex in the United States if not the globe.
Fran Tirado: That's what I'm saying. I'm like, Listen, I'm smart, I'm funny, I'm gainfully unemployed. I, you know, I'm, you know, I feel like I have a lot going for me.
Michelle Tea: Oh my God. OK. Wow. Well, you know, I think that maybe the universe just wants you to, like, be of service to everybody else who's out there struggling with romance, which is like so many millions of people. And they can just look and say, Fran Tirado is struggling with romance. Like, this shit is not personal.
Fran Tirado: Yeah. And if all else fails, I mean, if any, if any queer queer babies listening to this podcast, want to mosey on over to my Instagram and then slide into my DMs, please by all means.
Michelle Tea: Yeah.
Fran Tirado: I'll see you there.
Michelle Tea: I would love for like Your Magic to be a bit of a love spell casting for you. OK, so what I'm going to do then is I'm going to I'm pulling cards. I'm like, What's the energy here? What is the energy around this romantic dry spell? You know, what are some takeaways that that you can look at? OK, I'm going to do one more little shuffle. Oh. Damn, Fran, OK.
Fran Tirado: Oh no.
Michelle Tea: No, no, it's it's so good, it's so good. Look at your cards are so good that I have to say that either like this dry spell is incredibly like there is. If it doesn't feel very meaningful to you right now, you may in fact look back and be like that was actually really meaningful. There's a greater purpose going on. And I also want to say is so not forever your centerpiece card here is the Universe. OK. So like, love the Universe card. When it pops up, it's like you are exactly where you are supposed to be. So we don't, you know, like why? Why the dry spell? Not quite sure, but meant to be. Certainly not forever. I just don't believe in that. That's not my belief of the universe or the universe card. The Pleasure card, Six of Cups like Sun, Sun in Scorpio, like, I don't know if you've at least been getting some on the side during the dry spell.
Fran Tirado: Oh yeah.
Michelle Tea: OK, good. Good. Good.
Fran Tirado: It's definitely that is definitely a lot of like meaningless hookups and sex with people who I otherwise want to spend no time with.
Michelle Tea: Oh jeez.
Fran Tirado: Pleasurable for sure.
Michelle Tea: Well, that's interesting. I wonder what the takeaways of that are. You know, maybe it's something about learning the limits of that or you know or understand, I don't, you know.
Fran Tirado: Me and my therapist are working on it. I promise.
Michelle Tea: OK, cool. Good to know. I mean, like, it will have a meaning so personal to you, but Pleasure. And then this is really interesting to Wealth the Wealth card, the 10 of Disks. So, you know, one thing that's made me think of when it popped up was you saying how like you were formerly married to your work, you know, and making space for that. And it's like, you know, the disks, do you know they rule work? But I also see this wealth card is about like because it's such a gorgeous card and it's a 10 and I see it. So it's like the end of the path of the disk. It's, you know, it's the end of the disks of a disk cycle and all is as it should be. It's a it's a good ending and it's like, I feel like you've if you can see your trajectory in like a larger way where it's like you, you know, you were so married to your work and you know, but maybe like you had to sort of do that in order. I mean, when you are like a freelance, you know, person in the world and a creative person and an artist, you often have to at least have a period of time where you're obsessive about it because that launches you, you know, so like, you did that and then you hit the point where you're like, Oh, OK, I don't need to do this anymore or this isn't healthy. I want to integrate other things, and I feel like you're at the end. You really are at the end of that with this wealth card. I feel like one thing I also learn from doing tarot is like, we're always beginning and ending chapters, you know? So it's like this chapter of wealth building and resource building has come to a close, and now you're about to start over again. And this next chapter will probably, you know, everything that you learned about like work and balance and integration and resource building you're going to bring to your next cycle of like work. And how is that going to be different, but also like, enjoy the spoils, you know, and spoil yourself, spoil yourself. I think it's saying.
Fran Tirado: A Taurus dream.
Michelle Tea: Right? Yes I mean, like a Taurus might not need permission for that, but you're getting it. This looks so optimistic and positive. It looks like if there's a way for you to enjoy where you're at. I know, like as someone who saw myself, I'm so relationship oriented and I always even though at the end of any relationship, I'm always like, That's never going to happen again for me, it's over. Life has shown me, that's not true. And at some point, I began to really love my moments alone because I'm like, This isn't going to be forever. And there's a certain magic to to being single and being alone and being with myself. And I want to just get the most out of it before my next partner comes into my life because it's going to be different, and like, I'll still have that connection to myself, but it will be different. So I feel like the universe is saying a little bit that of that to you right now that you're still in a magic spot, even though that partner's not here yet, that partner is inevitable. So like really pleasure and wealth, enjoy your own pleasure and wealth while you can.
Fran Tirado: Wow, I really needed to hear that, Michelle. Thank you.
Michelle Tea: Good. I'm so glad it resonated.
Before I let you go. Fran, will you tell us about your new podcast? Because I love I loved Food for Thot I was a huge food for am a huge Food for Thot podcast fan. What's your new one?
Fran Tirado: Yes, so I have a new podcast called Like a Virgin with my friend Rose Dom you. It is a pop culture podcast where in, you know, one half of the podcast, we're talking about the week's pop culture news. Usually it's a lot of queer shit. Usually it's a lot of kind of like nonsense. And then the second half of the podcast, we dissect one cultural object per episode, so we'll deep dive into things like Harry Potter or mall goth culture and a Hot Topic. Or, you know, Romy and Michelle's High School reunion Jagged Little Pill by Alanis Morissette. And it's honestly just us being goofy, showcasing our friendship, kikiing together. So pop culture nerds or people that don't know anything about pop culture and want to get your digest would love, love love this podcast, and you can find it anywhere podcast are streaming [48.3s]
Michelle Tea: Yes, and it's called like a virgin. So perfect.
Fran Tirado: That's right? Just like me. Never been. Never been penetrated. Sorry you can cut that.
Michelle Tea: I think we'll keep it around. Fran thank you so much for being on the show. You're such a delight. I adore you.
Fran Tirado: Thank you. I appreciate it, Michelle.
[Music]
Katie Bennett: Hi I'm Katie Bennett and I'm a writer and musician from West Philly. I want to share a simple and effective spell for tapping into your intuition. You'll need a candle, rose quartz, a piece of paper, and a pen.
Set aside ten minutes in a quiet space and light a candle. Take your rose quartz and hold it close to your chest to strengthen and protect your heart. Look into the candle's flames and ask yourself, "what do I want?" You can also ask, what do I long for? what do I wish for now, what do I crave, or what do I desire, but I've found a simple "what do I want" works wonderfully. Ask yourself this until images appear in your eyes and ideas fill your head. Write down what comes to you. These are messages from your intuition, guiding you toward love and fulfillment.
The spell is inspired by a chapter on intuition from Clarissa Pinkola Estés glorious book Women Who Run With the Wolves. Estés writes about how our intuition becomes dulled when we surround ourselves with people who try to repress our energy and power. After doing this spell I was finally able to cut ties with an older male family member who constantly talked down to me and made me feel awful, but who I stayed in contact with out of a sense of obligation rather than my own desire. It was a really difficult decision, but I knew intuitively it was something I needed to do. By saying no to him I was saying yes to joy and love, and honoring my one precious life.
[Music]
Michelle Tea: Oh my goodness, Katie Bennett, I want to be your best friend. I relate so much to this, and I am also constantly looking at things through the lens of my one precious life. Try it you guys, it’s a great way to cut through the bullshit and really feel what’s important. And, try this spell, too. It’s a simple and crucial exercise for strengthening a simple and crucial aspect of your well being.
[Music]
Michelle Tea: Thanks for tuning into Your Magic. Make sure you follow us on Twitter and Instagram @thisisyourmagic. You can subscribe to us right here on Spotify — do what you need to do to never miss an episode. You can email us at hello@thisisyourmagic.com, we would love to hear from you. And you can support us — plus get access to a whole bunch of bonus content — at patreon.com/thisisyourmagic.
This episode was produced and edited by Molly Elizalde, Tony Gannon, and Vera Blossom. We got production support from Raven Yamamoto. Our executive producers are Ben Cooley, myself, and Molly Elizalde. Our original theme music is by John Kimbrough.
Thanks for listening!