Dana Margolin: The Sea Is So Powerful And I Am So Small

Life on the road is bittersweet for Porridge Radio’s Dana Margolin. Today we unpack her existential touring crisis, the grounding effects of repetition, and her connection to the sea. Michelle Tea shares her own healing experience by the beach before Vera Blossom gives us the perfect waterside ritual to cure burnout.

[Music]

Dana Margolin: I think there's there's a real magic to it and a real vastness and endlessness. And it's so powerful and I am so small. And I think that maybe it comes into a lot of what I make. And it's a feeling that definitely. Is really present when I'm when I'm by the sea.

[Music]

Michelle Tea: Hello and welcome to Your Magic. I’m your host, Michelle Tea, and today I’ll be talking to Dana Margolin of the dreamy music project Porridge Radio. We’re going to talk about the scene in Brighton, astrology, the importance of stability and comfort, and more. After that, we will be graced with Vera Blossom, who has a beachy, nap-time ASMR ritual for maximum chill. Stay with us.

[Music]

Michelle Tea: There is this one period in my life – I was young, like twenty-one, and estranged from my family and really going through it. I was in a bad relationship but at least my girlfriend had the decency to take off for Arizona so it could be a long-distance bad relationship. I was left very much on my own, living in a boarding house in Provincetown, Massachusetts.

Now, there is a lot to say about Provincetown. It’s where the British colonizers landed, so you could say it’s cursed. It’s also a queer mecca situated on a spiral of land that swirls out into the ocean. So you can say it’s magical, and many do. It’s a haven for artists – John Waters can often be spotted riding his bicycle down the town’s main drag. When I lived there, I was in such a bad state, I didn’t really have it in me to take advantage of the good times or community the village offers. But, my shabby little rooming house was right across the street from: The Ocean.

Like, right across the street. I would be barefoot, shuffling out of my flophouse, walking across the road through a parking lot and boop, my feet hit sand. If you don’t know what to do with yourself, if you’re bored or restless or feel super lost in your life, going to the ocean is always a fantastic idea. First of all, you never know what you’ll find. In Provincetown, the beachcombing is extra fun, because right beyond the bay are a couple of ye olde shipwrecks, and pottery and smashed china from them will frequently wash up on the shore. As if the very unfathomableness of the ocean itself is not enough to make you feel small, your life fairly inconsequential, then it has to go burping up shards of antiques at your feet, like, Time? You want to talk about time?

You physically cannot not feel better after spending some time at the beach. And that’s because of Negative Ions.  So ions are molecules that carry either a negative or positive electrical charge, and they drift through the air, interacting with our bodies and really having an effect upon them. Positive ions aren’t as upbeat as they sound - pollution, and electromagnetism from our screens have positive electrical charges, and they can make us feel foggy and fatigued. But negative ions! Negative Ions are magic. They bring about a feeling of rejuvenation and relaxation; they refresh us. Negative Ions are found in abundance at the ocean or where water gets sort of banged around – waterfalls, rushing rivers, the current of a creek. Even your shower at home will create negative ions, which really stunned me to learn, because before I got on Effexor I would sometimes take three showers a day! I just felt so much better after them.

I’d feel a lot better after shuffling around the ocean in Provincetown, too. One night, feeling especially like an orphan, cut off from family love and support, I brought some paper and markers and a candle down to the ocean, and I decided I would allow her to adopt me. It wouldn’t matter that I didn’t have a fallible, messed-up human family to care for me – I’d have the motherfucking ocean, infinitely more powerful and eternal. I made myself a new birth certificate, there beneath the moon which, wouldn’t you know it, just happened to be full. I sealed it with candle wax and cried, feeling heavy and sad but also lighter, and solid, and magic.

I’ve long since reconciled with my family of origin; my mother is downstairs right now folding my laundry (Thanks, Ma! I didn’t ask her to do that by the way, she likes to do it! I swear!) But whenever I am by the ocean, and especially when I’m lucky enough to visit that stretch of Atlantic that swirls around Provincetown, I feel like I’m having a reunion with my shadow mother – eternally present and filled with life and mystery, giving me a rejuvenating, ionic kiss. 

Here’s Dana Margolin

[Music]

Michelle Tea: Welcome to your magic. 

Dana Margolin: Thank you.

Michelle Tea: I am so moved and intrigued in everything that I know about you and about your work, about how important the ocean, the sea is. Like, it seems like it's a real source of magic in your life. 

Dana Margolin: Yeah, I think it really is. I mean, I. I used to live in Brighton. I was there for five years and that's on the south coast of the UK on the sea. And I grew up in London. But one of the things when I moved to Brighton that made me really tied to it was the ocean and being so close to it. And I there was a time for about two years I lived really, really close to the sea and I would go down pretty much every single day to the beach and just. Kind of stand and stare at it and take it all in. And I think that even where I haven't explicitly thought about it as a song is like an influence in my work. It always has been. I don't think I've. I think there's there's a real magic to it and a real vastness and endlessness. And it's so powerful and I am so small. And I think that maybe it comes into a lot of what I make. And it's a feeling that definitely. Is really present when I'm when I'm by the sea. 

Michelle Tea: Will you talk about the the kind of scene in Brighton that kind of gave birth to Porridge Radio that that it all came out of?

Dana Margolin: I mean, Brighton is full of bands. It's just unbelievable numbers of bands. All the time was like there was a time where we were playing, you know, three shows a week on the same street. And that was only possible because it's a city that has a show every night. And there's so many amazing venues and so many independent promoters and DIY artists and also artists who are maybe doing things on a slightly larger scale. And there's, there's just so much going on. It was a really great environment to start a band and learn how to play shows and be around other people who are doing it, and we're excited to do it. Even before we knew what we were doing. 

Michelle Tea: So cool. How do you feel about being on tour? Is it something that you enjoy? 

Dana Margolin: I have mixed feelings about it. I find it really, really difficult, but I also find it really, really amazing. And there's times where I'm on tour and I just think this is the best thing. I can't believe I get to do this. I'm so lucky I get to see the world with my friends and perform these songs that we've made. And then sometimes I'm so tired and so sad and it's like, Why am I here? Why am I doing this? To what end? What about my beautiful domestic dreams? Where are they?

Michelle Tea: is the kind of being pulled away from a sense of home? What makes you sad and gives you what sounds like an existential crisis? 

Dana Margolin: Yes, definitely. I think I'm. People need routine. And I think routine and stability and comfort are what make what allow us to function and tour is the opposite of that. So as much as I think I have. A sense of I want to travel, I want to see everything, I want to meet people, I want to make things. I want to express myself. I also really crave stability and comfort. 

Michelle Tea: You know, your statement about like people need routine, which I totally agree with, also makes me think about ritual and how ritual is sort of like a like I was super heightened moment of routine. And I'm wondering like, do you have rituals in your life? 

Dana Margolin: Yeah. I think I'm Jewish and have a lot of family rituals, so it's been quite important growing up. Every single Friday I go to my grandmas for Friday night dinner from birth until I was 18 and left home. And there's I think within that tradition, there's a lot of rituals that are just very kind of intrinsic to family life that I don't think I ever really overthought until much later on when I realized how important they've been. Things like singing the same songs or telling the same stories within the same family meals throughout the year. Like those things have always been really important to me. But then I think as I've got older, I kind of have other rituals and routines that I do for myself, which I kind of pick up along the way or you know, like when I was in Brighton going down to the sea whenever I felt like I needed something, some kind of grounding.

Michelle Tea: Can you locate like your the rituals from your childhood of song and storytelling in your artwork, like in your songwriting? 

Dana Margolin: Yeah, I sometimes can do, you know, like I think a lot of the time people will point out the repetition that I use in my songwriting. And when I actually think about it, I can see how that is kind of linked to that. The songs that I would sing on summer camp growing up. You could like they had similar kind of repetitions to them, a feeling of kind of communal singing that brings people together, I think have really informed the kind of songs I write. 

Michelle Tea: I have to ask you what your astrological sign is. I can't believe it's taken me this long.

Dana Margolin: Scorpio. 

Michelle Tea: Do you know what your other stuff is? You know, like your moon, your rising.

Dana Margolin: Actually no. I just realized that I'm not going to look at my phone because I realize I'm actually using it to record this and I shouldn’t. But it’s Libra and Pisces. I think Pisces is the rising. 

Michelle Tea: I can see that you have a dreaminess about you and especially in your performance, like the way that you like your poetry. It's also very Libra Moon Now and then you got that Scorpio. Very interesting. Very interesting. It's not a surprise that you that you guys have done so well. Do you pay attention to astrology and the stuff, or are you just sort of like, give a half an eye?

Dana Margolin: I love astrology as a way to make sense of things is like a reflection of what is. I think when somebody kind of when you're when you're confronted with. Ideas about what your life is and means. You can then come back and about. You can act as a mirror so that you can actually respond to it. And so I've often when I've been having a really difficult time, I do go to astrology because this is nice to have something written down that I could then agree or disagree with.

Michelle Tea: What do you do to, like, self-care while you're traveling? How do you take care of yourself?

Dana Margolin: I actually really struggle with that and that's something I am really learning how to do. But I think it's really important for me to have time to myself, time to sit and stare at the wall for 10 minutes, 15 minutes, walk around on my own, do a drawing, call my sister or my mom like those. Every time I think I'm on the brink of collapse, that's like. That's what pulls me back and gets things going again. 

[Music]

Michelle Tea: Well, I have this deck of tarot cards, and I would love to read your tarot cards if you would like that. 

Dana Margolin: I would love that. 

Michelle Tea: Cool. Do you have you had a tarot reading before? 

Dana Margolin: Never.

Michelle Tea: Oh, I am honored. That's so cool.

Dana Margolin: I’ve always wanted to have one which is part of the appeal of meeting you. 

Michelle Tea: Yeah, I love tarot, and it's I don't know, it's. It's a tool for so many great things. Usually I find it tells you sort of what you already know. But often we need we need that kind of confirmation from the universe or from something outside of ourselves, because it can be so hard to trust ourselves or trust our insight. Or, you know, where we're coming from. And it also can point us in different directions, which I like. I like that very practical help as well. Is there anything in particular that you'd like to know about? 

Dana Margolin: I guess the question is, is is more of like an existential “Is this the path? Is this what I'm doing right now is traveling extensively? Is touring the best idea? Is this the is this what I'm doing?”

Michelle Tea: Okay, that sounds great. So it's not so much like is, you know, my music, my career, my creativity, the right path. It's more like is the touring part of this the right path? 

Dana Margolin: Yes.

Michelle Tea: All right. All right. Well, since you are slated to be on the road for quite a while real soon. 

Dana Margolin: Let’s find out if it’s a good idea before I do it. What do I do if it's not good? 

Michelle Tea: Well, it seems like you're already committed to it. So what we'll do if it's not a good idea is let's figure out some tools for you to use while your in it. Yeah. While you're in it. But let's just start with that. I'm shuffling right now thinking what does it look like for you to be on tour like in regards to, you know, is this your highest good? Is touring your highest good personally, creativity, spiritually, emotionally, professionally, all of it. Pulling three and now I like to compare and contrast, so I'll pull an alternative. I mean, you know, alternately, I guess it would be like not touring, right? And finding other ways to promote and perform that aren't quite so hectic. All right, let's see. I mean, we can always brainstorm what that looks like if it tells you that that's a good path for you. But is it in your best interest to not tour quite so extensively? All right. So what does touring look like for you? It looks so good. But guess what? It's also the devil. The middle card. You know, I do these these three card readings and very often the set the card that's right in the middle feels almost like the centerpiece, where it's like really channeling this this core of energy. And it's like, oh, my God, it's it's it's the devil, right? It's what you wrestle with. It's there's so much good in the devil, right? I mean, we we love the devil because the devil is so alive and there's rawness and adventure and sexy and it's procreative, it's creative, but it's also it drags us down. It makes us feel like we're not in charge of our own destiny. It can wear us out. It doesn't seem like it necessarily cares about our well-being. It's just sort of stomping all over us. Right? So it's yeah, it looks like that. I think this is really that that very true like friction that you have with this. But I want to tell you, the first card that came out was victory. This is a beautiful card. It's the six of wands astrologically. It's Jupiter in Leo. So Jupiter is the planet that brings us gifts. It's where we are lucky, it's where we're fortunate, it's where things fall into our laps. And it's also where our lives expand and our horizons expand where we level up. And it's in Leo, which is the sign of performance, creativity, art. I mean, this is so good for a touring musician to get this, you know, it's like in the Rider-Waite Tarot, this is the Thoth tarot. But, you know, it's, it's often seen as it's often drawn as a person sort of riding triumphantly into town on a horse. And like, if that's not a tour in 2022, you know. Triumphantly, you know, pulling into town and everybody being so excited to see you. Right. So yeah, I mean, they're this is showing that also it is really beneficial for you and you know here's something to about the tarot everything is right now you know. You can ask this question next year, maybe when you're done with this giant tour that you're going to be doing, you might have a very different it could be like, okay, you, you did it and now something else. But for right now, it seems like what the best thing for you to do is to really try to get a handle on the devil and like, how can you work with the devil and have him not be so much of your enemy? But, you know. But but your your your I don't know, your little friend, your frenemy. Your last card here and I love this also. You got to you got to Jupiter cards in this one. It's called truce. Right. So there's you making a truce with tour making a truce with the part of yourself that's, you know, that's an internal struggle around it. Like maybe being like, okay, I'm not going to I'm making I'm going to make a deal with myself to not torture myself about whether or not this is the right thing to do right now. I'm just going to commit to it. I know it's the devil. I know the way that it drags on me. Right? But I'm just going to be like, okay, hello, devil, we're hanging out with you for a year or so. I don't know how long you know this is going to be for you. What I love about this for you is that it's a swords card. It's the four of swords. Swords to happen all in our mind. So this is you coming to a sort of intellectual peace about it, you know? So, like, you're not torturing yourself about it. It's also Libra. So it's it's Jupiter and Libra. And you have Libra, you know, prominent in your in your make up. So and you know that, you know, your Libra moon. Your moon is what is what wants to feel safe and cozy. And so that is that part of you that does probably want to be home in a pretty, pretty house that you get to decorate, make look lovely and, you know, in your interest. 

Dana Margolin: You’re gonna make me cry.

Michelle Tea: Okay. I'm sorry. Oh, no, I'm the devil. Oh, Jesus. But, you know, I think that it's like, well, how can you bring that into tours, into your touring area? Like, how can you create a little, you know, mobile nest for yourself so that, you know, you're kind of like. A little turtle with like your shell on your back for a bit, you know, and again, not forever. And just making a peace with it that like, you know, that you'll have that waiting for you at the end of this journey. But you have to go on this rousing victory tour basically here with the six of wands before you. And so, you know, and, you know, I think intellectually that that this is really good for you and it does a service to the work you've created. Right. And it's like as artists, we always have to be in service to our work, right? And you're doing that, which is very beautiful and noble. For not touring let me see what that looks like for you. I mean, I do think that there is a world for you where you can stop touring and think of a different way to do this. So what I'm seeing in these card pulls, it's not either or. It's sort of like both and. So it's like, you know, for right now, obviously, this this tour is very good for you. But I think that you will also with this devil card, you will be very you will be you will be really aware on this tour of like the ways in which touring doesn't work for you. You know, you will be very aware of it. It's not going to break you or anything like that. It's more like information, you know, as you and and this could also be a sort of if I wonder if there's a way for you to look at, you know, your upcoming tour as a as like an interesting fact finding mission for yourself. If you're just like, aha, this is why I don't like this, this, you know, this moment, you know what has happened here. Gas station, hard boiled eggs is why I do not, like, tour, you know. 

Dana Margolin: That’s why I do like tour.

Michelle Tea: Well, that's cool. 

Dana Margolin: I do like a mobile hard boiled egg.

Michelle Tea: Oh, my God. It can be so fun to feel like, well, I guess I have to eat trash because there's literally nothing else available to me. 

Dana Margolin: But, you know, things have changed a lot and there's a lot of like the last five years or something. There's there's so many, like, good salads that you can get at the service stations. And it’s life saving.

Michelle Tea: All right. 

Dana Margolin: So, like, the most important thing is always having a bag full of vegetables, just like anywhere you go, cereal, bars, vegetables, dips.

Michelle Tea: So you do know how to take care of yourself on tour.

Dana Margolin: It's very hard though you know. You have to be so on it to be able to do it. You have to be so aware of everything all the time because if you let it sit for one day, then you just have nothing good to eat. 

Michelle Tea: Listen, I, you know, I, I went I went really big and positive on touring for you. But I do want to tell you that, you know, as far as, like, you know, asking the cards, like, is this your is this in your highest interest? Is this in your best interest? It actually is in your best interest maybe not to tour.

Dana Margolin: Oh really.

Michelle Tea: Well, I mean, I do feel like I feel very happy for you that you got that victory card. I mean, that's a big deal, that card. And so I'm getting from that is that like, you know, you've got to do it right now. You're signed up for it right now, you know, and that's, I think, where the devil comes in. When the devil comes in, we kind of feel like we can't get out of something, you know, it's almost, you know, it's off. It often comes up during readings where there's an addiction at play, right? So if you think about that, it's like you're like, I have to do this. There's no way out of it. So I can see you feeling like that a little bit right now. And, you know, surely you you have these dates booked, you are sort of on the hook for it. But yeah, you're, you know, and I think you'll make your truth around it and you're going to have a good time. But big picture, when you're done with all of that, the first card that came up for you here for not touring is the Aeon. This is a big deal card. This is about a whole new way of living. So I'm like, wow, you know, it almost because touring is such like the way it's done. It would. It's like you need a card that's this big and this powerful actually, to help you figure out, well, what's the alternative? It's like you have to create a whole new reality in which touring isn't paramount. It's not how you do it. And I can see this actually being really powerful and great for you. I mean, this is a very positive card. It means a change for the better. But often at the start of this change, there's a sense of like, I don't know how to do this. I don't know what I'm doing in the. The story in the card is you see this old pharaoh in the back and he's out. He's the old model. He's touring. He's on tour forever. And then you see this little ghostly baby here, and he's the new ruler, but he's just a baby. So you're like, how is he going to rule? He doesn't know what he's doing. But it's his destiny. It's his destiny to grow into it and to figure it out. And he'll have support, you know, and as will you. So, you know, this is a really interesting card to get when you're thinking about drastically changing the way not only you live your life, but the way you manage your career and certainly the people the way people expect you to manage your career. Right. So it's also this is a riff on traditionally in the tarot, this is the judgment card. So when the judgment card comes up, we have to take a hard look at our past and be like, that wasn't working for me. I don't want to do that anymore. I'm not bringing that into my future. So since we're talking about like, do I not tour anymore, I think it's really clear. Like that's what you want to not bring in, right?

Dana Margolin: Wow that’s quite heavy.

Michelle Tea: What's nice is the next cards that are coming for you are actually quite light and joyful. The next one is you can just see it in the colors. It's called. It's called what? It's called virtue. It's the three of wands. And this is a really beautiful card. It's sun in Aries. And the ones are about what we do with our will, our life, energy, our passion. Right. You know, with the six of wands coming up for you, you took all of that life, energy and passion and you were creative with it and you were victorious in your creativity. This is all about being more self focused in that way, that Aries is the very first sign of the Zodiac, and they are very much all about the self energetically. So this is about taking your will and just putting it in exactly the right place. And it's like if that right place for you is home and like hunkering down and doing, you know, kind of starting moving your creative work into a direction that allows you to be more of a homebody and be more in one place and be able to have that kind of consistent, grounded self-care. Like this is a card that bodes so well for that. It's a very it's a very beautiful card. And it's the idea of virtue. It's not about like, you know, purity or morality. It's like it's about like you've done the correct thing for yourself that's just like what it is that you've done the right thing for yourself. And then you end with another Jupiter card. It's Jupiter and Pisces, and it's literally happiness. The card is literally called happiness. Like, will you be happier or not touring? Yes, you will be. Have you made a truce about having to go on this particular, you know, victory tour? Yeah, you have you know, you have. And, you know, am I right that this is sort of like this is all sort of the tour that you were sort of supposed to go on before COVID knocked everything out? Right. So there is this sort of delayed like we've all been waiting for you. The world's been waiting for you. So you're going to go greet your public and then, yeah, you're going to go you're going to chill out. And I think that I think that not touring actually is something that makes a lot of sense for you. And it might be a little tricky at first to figure out how that works in a practical sense, but it looks like you can do it. 

Dana Margolin: Thank you. I’m definitely a flighty person. I need to be on the move, I need to go places and do things. 

Michelle Tea: But maybe it's just figuring out how to do smaller targeted tours instead of these wild like you're you're globetrotting for, you know, a year. 

Dana Margolin: Yeah, exactly. I think definitely after, um, not being able to tour for so long, there's so many people who wanted to see us and so many places we wanted to get to see, like, well, let's just do it all. And now suddenly there’s a lot happening.

Michelle Tea: Oh, my God. Dana, thank you so much for spending some time and talking about your life.

Dana Margolin: Thank you so much. It's been really, really nice. Illuminating.

[Music]

Vera Blossom: Hi, I’m Vera Blossom, a producer here at Your Magic. Today I have a simple ritual that you can use when you’re stressed out, overworked, or feeling the inklings of burnout creep up on you.

Here’s what you’ll need: 

Sunblock – at least SPF 60

A body of water

A picnic blanket or beach towel

Ideally, you’ll have a sunny day. 

Make your way to the closest body of water to you: maybe it’s the ocean, a great lake, a stream, or even an artificial pond at a park in your neighborhood. 

Check your phone – hopefully you’ve gotten a semi-urgent email or text from someone. Here’s the important part: don’t answer it. Set your phone to Do Not Disturb. 

Sit by the water and watch as the tides rock back and forth – if it’s a river, watch the water roll downstream. Even the water in a small pond will ripple if you look closely. Reflect on the movement of the water – how it’s affected by the wind and the pull of the moon. As the tide comes toward you, imagine yourself placing all your stress and dark thoughts into the water. As it washes away, watch the water pull your heaviness away. Feel the weight become lighter, feel your shoulders relax. Breathe in. Breathe out.

Spend however much time by the water as you want. You’ll know you’re done when you’ve reached that zen state where your head feels empty and your thoughts are a little less frantic.

Now, set your blanket or towel down and have a seat. Cover yourself in sun block, and then lay down. Feel the sun hugging your skin and the heat cooking away all your anxieties. I like to imagine that I’m made of clay and the sun is like a kiln – my skin and spirit becoming hardened and glossy so that I can be protected from bad vibes. 

Revel in the pleasure of ignoring your real life.

Stay by the water as long as possible – until the sun sets if you can help it. Do nothing.

If you’re a truly landlocked witch, with no access to any body of water, fret not. You can turn your shower or bathtub on and lay on the tile. Listen to the water, almost as if you were sitting by a rainy window. Let your negative thoughts go down the drain. Then, lay on the floor somewhere else in your house – hopefully by a window if you can, or even a terrace, or your roof – and listen to your favorite music. Do this for as long as possible and don’t forget to ignore all the texts and emails blowing up your phone. 

This ritual won’t cure your burnout – but maybe if you can sneak away to do this ritual enough times, you can stave it off for a bit longer.

[Music]

Michelle Tea: Thank you so much, Vera Blossom. I feel more relaxed just listening to that drowsy magic! I wanna try it.

Wherever you find your magic – by the sea or in your home, connecting with your cards or indulging a nap, we hope you find lots of it this week. See you next time.

Thanks for tuning into Your Magic. You can support us — plus get access to a whole bunch of bonus content — at patreon.com/thisisyourmagic. Every dollar makes our work possible. Make sure you follow us on Twitter and Instagram @thisisyourmagic and subscribe to our newsletter at thisisyourmagic.com. You can rate us and subscribe right here on Spotify — do what you need to do to never miss an episode. You can email us at hello@thisisyourmagic.com, we would love to hear from you.

This episode was produced and edited by Molly Elizalde, Tony Gannon, and Vera Blossom. We got production support from Kirsten Osei-Bonsu. Our executive producers are Ben Cooley, myself, and Molly Elizalde. Our original theme music is by John Kimbrough. 

Thanks for listening!