Jes Tom: A Capricorn With A Sagittarius Face
With the Sagittarius heart of a true romantic and the Capricorn drive of a champion, it’s no surprise Jes Tom has an affinity for giving advice. In today’s episode we dig a bit deeper, taking a look at Tom’s seven Capricorn placements, their complicated relationship with spiritual ancestry, and how they’re rethinking what romance looks like for them. Michelle Tea gives her own experience with spritually distant ancestors before Vanessa Li and Bowen Goh give us the perfect drink to woo your favorite Sagittarius.
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Jes Tom: My ancestors, were they good people? Like, I don't know, like do I want to listen to them? Or were they like evil, evil ghosts that I like happened to psychically not have access to?
[Music]
Michelle Tea: Hello and welcome to Your Magic. I’m your host, Michelle Tea, and today I am talking with the hi-larious comedian Jes Tom, who you can all enjoy on your Hulu right now as part of the adorable, queer teen romcom Crush. We’re going to talk about their advice show, Dear Jes, about having a Capricorn stellium, the woo horror of coming from a spiritually dead lineage, and more. After that, Vanessa Li and Bowen Goh share a Wong Kar Wai-inspired Sagittarius adult beverage from their new astrology-themed cocktail book, Margarita in Retrograde.
[Music]
Michelle Tea: Okay, so I mention this in my conversation with Jes but, once, while having a session with a witch I deeply admire, I asked her about ancestors I might have hanging around me. And she tucked into herself in that witchy way that a witch will, you know communing with unseen forces and energies, and she was like – nope. You actually do not have any ancestors around you.
This tracks, somewhat, with what a totally different psychic witch had told me years before – that I did have an ancestor lingering around, but she was very unhappy with my lifestyle choices. This was a gay psychic witch, so she wasn’t projecting.
One plus one clearly equals two, here: once upon a time, an ancestor had shown up to give me some guidance, had a gander at my wild life, realized I was beyond spectral help, and went into the light. Well, fine. Maybe I didn’t want help from that particular ancestor, anyway! I mean, as lovely as it is to imagine that crossing over makes us privy to the secret of life, and that once we move into the spirit realm we are totally our best and wisest selves, looking to steer our beloved earthlings in a chill direction – we actually have no idea if that is so. Sometimes I think lingering spirits are simply too attached to their human lives and are afraid to move on, so they hang about here trying to be useful, hoping we’ll notice them, sort of thirsty and pathetic, really, when you think about it. Move on, Grandma, I’ve got this.
When I think about my ancestors, I think about a long line of alcoholics, Polish and Irish, who immigrated to the poverty of this country to escape the more severe poverty of their own. Maybe some of them were magical people, but the ones I knew were a bit burdened by their hardships and traumas. It hadn’t brought out the best in them. Like loads of put-upon white people, it brought out a xenophobia, a racism, a weird tendency to identify with rich people and look down at people worse off then them, people they had waaaay more in common with, right? Supposedly, one ancestor came over on the Mayflower – which I think is wishful thinking, but if so, I don’t know that I want anything to do with that colonialist. And, like everyone from New England, we have a legendary Native American in our history, but as I would rather not talk to any ancestral pilgrims, surely this unlikely ancestor isn’t too keen on providing guidance to the settler side of their lineage. It all makes me think about a post I once saw by an African-American witch, asking white people to maybe back off contacting our ancestors, all things considered.
So, what’s a witch without a lineage to do? I fall back, frequently, on the truth that love makes a family. I may not have much in common with the people who came before me genetically, but I have so much love, gratitude and commonality for the queers, witches, sex workers, feminists, writers and general freaky people that walked this planet when it was really, really, really hard to do so, making it so much easier for people like me and also giving me mad inspiration that such outcasts have always found a way to live their wild, weird lives, among their people. The dyke French author Violette LeDuc; Vali Myers, the tattooed witch of the Chelsea Hotel; writer, mother and risk-taker Cookie Mueller; Los Angeles poet Wanda Coleman, slutty art-lover Peggy Guggenheim, who else, whoever I feel seen by, whoever makes me feel like an echo of them, a little wave in a particular ocean of consciousness.
So many of us are alienated from our families of origin, it is seductive to think a ghostly lineage who really gets us is watching over us just out of view. Maybe they are. But what really thrills me is imagining tarot creators like Pamela Coleman Smith or Lady Frieda Harris watching me endlessly study the tarot, thinking, there’s one right there, one of my millions of spiritual granddaughters.
Here’s Jes Tom
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Michelle Tea: Jes Tom, welcome to your magic, it's so exciting to have you here.
Jes Tom: Thank you, Michelle. I'm very excited to be here.
Michelle Tea: I really like your work so much, and I love that you have an advice show and I want to talk to you all about it. What? What made you want to offer your wisdom to the masses in this in this particular way?
Jes Tom: OK, I don't know what this is about me, but I've always wanted to give advice to people and I've always been this way like I was 13 and like kids were asking me. My friends would ask me about like dating advice, and I had, like, never dated anybody before. But I was always like telling people like, “Oh, this is what you should do, this is what you should say”. I used to read a lot of Dear Abby as a kid, and I always thought like my dream job was to do a Dear Abby-style column. So then when the Netflix most people asked if I had any ideas for a video series, I was like, What if I told everybody? What if everybody told me their gossip and then I told them what to do?
Michelle Tea: It's so perfect, and it's so great that it's like in your like bedroom. And I mean, I guess, like, everything's in everyone's bedroom for the past few years, but for some reason, yours feels extra special like it would be in your bedroom, even if there wasn't a pandemic.
Jes Tom: Thank you. It was born fully in the deep pandemic. We started doing that January 2021, and the way it worked was like a crew of guys. Just two guys would come in, set up the cameras in the room and then leave the room. And I would be in there by myself with people on Zoom who were directing me and I would just like be talking as though I was talking to other people.
Michelle Tea: It's so good and it's so funny and and you're now your advice is spot on. I think. I think I'm in full agreement with you.
Jes Tom: Thank you!
Michelle Tea: What's your sign? This might be the answer to, you know, this this desire to impart your wisdom.
Jes Tom: I am a Sagittarius Aries rising Capricorn Moon and a Capricorn stellium with seven placements in Capricorn.
Michelle Tea: Oh my god, I'm so sorry.
Jes Tom: I like it.
Michelle Tea: You do.
Jes Tom: I like it. It works for me. But I want to know why you're sorry.
Michelle Tea: Well, I just think that stellium, a Capricorn stellium could go either way. I mean, obviously, it sets you up for a lot of worldly success, but also, like, do you just feel the passage of time, like just grading on your skin every day or what it's just like? It seems like it could be quite heavy, but maybe you know you're the levity the famous and infamous levity of a Sagittarius can handle it.
Jes Tom: I like to think of myself as a Capricorn with a Sagittarius face, so I'm like, I'm like, so like cute and fun and funny. But inside I have this like deep evil ambition and I'm going to, like, do anything I can to, like, get the things I want.
Michelle Tea: You will, because that Aries Rising will just take you vrooming. OK, so this is so interesting also. So because you have an Aries rising, you have you probably know this, but you have what's called a natural chart, which means that all of your planets are in there, the houses that rule them. So all of your all of your Capricorn, like all of your all of your Saturns, are in the House of Saturn, right? All of your all. That's how that kind of stuff works.
Jes Tom: I mean, this is this feels very early in the episode. OK, let's get to the um, what I eventually am going to ask, but I saw a costar meme for Sagittarius that was like hierarchy of needs, and the top tier was like total romantic freedom. And then the next tier was total romantic devotion. I was like, “Oh shit”, like something in that really changed me. When I saw that, I was like, Oh, this is this is what it is.
Michelle Tea: Oh, and I can only imagine that having the Capricorn Moon would really extra kind of bolt down that need for devotion.
Jes Tom: Mm hmm.
Michelle Tea: Because the devotion is very like a stabilizing right? Like if you're if you have devotion, you sort of know where you stand. You can kind of relax into the feeling of being devoted. And like Capricorn, Moon, just like wants to know exactly what's going on like they want. They want it in a contract. My Venus, I have a Sagittarius darling. I'm so I'm very saggy. And I should say the moon is in Sagittarius right now as we speak. So this is just all very good for us.
Jes Tom: Amazing.
Michelle Tea:Yeah. But my Venus is in Capricorn, so I relate to that because I'm also I also feel like I just want to be a huge slut and like, Don't give me any, don't give me any problems about it, OK? And I'm like, but also marry me and sign these contracts that you'll never leave me.
Jes Tom: Totally. I I don't know exactly what my Venus is, and I had thought it was Capricorn, but then I got my chart read by someone who told me it was Sagittarius. Oh, no, I'm not now. I'm not sure. Hmm.
Michelle Tea: There's so much information out there. There's so much information in the astrology realm to keep straight.
Jes Tom: The stars are so vast.
Michelle Tea: So, you know, obviously this is a woo show, and I btw love how you sort of like, you know, honk the nose of the woo on your on your shows and sort of make fun of it in such an insider way that I know you kind of are into it at the same time. And I do want to ask you, like, were you raised with any sort of spiritual practice that you had to rebel against or that actually informs your days today?
Jes Tom: So not really. I was I was famously a Girl Scout for 13 years from ages five to 18, which was the closest thing I had to a religious association like we would do. A Girl Scout troop and a Boy Scout troop is usually sponsored by a church. So we would do this thing called Scout Sunday, where once a year, twice a year, we would like go to the church and like, sit there for a service. It was a Japanese church, so they would do it in English and then do it again in Japanese. So it was twice as long and there wasn't much in that I literally didn't understand. But I kind of this is kind of a heavy thing to say. But I think a lot about how I wonder if I come from a spiritually dead lineage in my family.
Michelle Tea: Is it that heavy? I mean, I feel like there's a lot of spiritual deadness around us. Either people pretending to be spiritual and there's a lot of deadness or just like a like a vacuum of spirituality.
Jes Tom: Fair enough.
Michelle Tea: Yeah. I mean, what does that mean to you that you think it was spiritually dead? Like in what way? How does that manifest?
Jes Tom: Like, I feel like a lot of a lot of people of color and especially queer people of color have this kind of rhetoric of like, you know, I'm with my ancestors or my ancestors are speaking to me and my ancestors are watching me like I'm doing. Like, I carry my ancestors with me in everything I do, and I'm sort of like, I don't feel that way. And also my ancestors, were they good people like, I don't know, like, are their ambitions really aligned with like what I want to do in the world? Do I want to listen to them? Or were they like evil, evil ghosts that I like happened to psychically not have access to?
Michelle Tea: Oh my god, I mean, there's this hope, right, that if people pass over, suddenly they're like given access to like some sort of cosmic truth, you know? But like, maybe not, maybe they're just like the same cranky fuckin like short sighted, petty, resentful ghosts.
Jes Tom: I yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Like, there's a lot of people, queer people, queer people of color, aligning ourselves with the struggles that our ancestors have gone through with the oppressions that they've faced and like for me, I'm a little like I'm half Japanese and half Chinese. I think that my Chinese side of the family were like grifters a few generations back. The Japanese side of my family is super complicated politically in America, on both sides and then in Japan, I'm like, I don't know what they were doing. So I'm sort of like where they where they oppressed or where they. I don't know.
Michelle Tea: Yeah, it's a particular story, man, I had a witch once tell me that I had no ancestors around me, they just weren't interested in me.
Jes Tom: That's intense. And how did that make you feel?
Michelle Tea: I was bummed like, I like the idea that there's some like friendly ghosts, like a little Casper on my shoulder or something, you know? But also it kind of resonated because, you know, I also never necessarily felt, you know, a particular presence around me. But and I also, you know, especially as a white person, I'm just like, I know what these people are like when they were alive. Like, I don't know, maybe they got like some sort of like they get to go to like woke college on the other side and like, emerge with like angel wings and being like, We're very sorry for our ideas. You know, I don't know. So. Yeah, same. It's like, I don't know, are they? Are they my people? I mean, am I advancing some sort of, you know, I don't know. They're they're psychic spiritual cause here today. I don't, I just don't know. But I love I do feel very connected to certain queer ancestors. Feminist ancestors like weird, fucked up lady ancestors, hooker ancestors, you know, like when you just are poking around, you know, learning about history and you find out about these people who lived these wild lives and you're like, How did you survive being who you were in that time period? Like, those people give me a lot of life, and I would like to petition them to be my adopted ancestors, you know.
Jes Tom: Honestly, this is making me feel a lot better and a lot less spiritually alone in the universe.
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Michelle Tea :Well, listen, I got this deck of tarot cards here, and we're going to we're going to turn the tables just now. You're going to ask someone else for advice, but it's not me. It's spirit. Remember that? So, yeah, I'd love to read your tarot cards if you're up for it.
Jes Tom: I love I love tarot. I I. I'm totally up for that.
Michelle Tea: Cool.
Jes Tom: I just was going to say tarot is always sort of intense for me, like coming from this perspective of being like, Oh, I'm not really sure. Like not whether or not I believe in these things, but whether or not they can affect me or I can interface with them because I feel like tarot is really it comes through really clearly in a way that frightens me. And I just I think that, yeah, tarot is really interesting.
Michelle Tea: It is frightening. Well, you know, here's the thing it's just it's just energy. It really is like fueled by the people working with it. There's there's no this is made in a game factory or something, right?
Jes Tom: Oh, no, they're totally.
Michelle Tea: Yeah.
Jes Tom: That's what I’m literally thinking, I'm like, this was made in a factory. It's just pieces of paper, and I am deriving great meaning or like. It seems to be really telling me something. As though it’s its own thing.
Michelle Tea: I know it's so fascinating. Um, what would you like the tarot to enlighten you around? And what is there something special you'd like some insight on?
Jes Tom: So classically, queerly, you were speaking to me on the heels of a breakup right now.
Michelle Tea:Aw, I'm sorry, man. That's the worst.
Jes Tom:That's yeah, it is. Breakup sucks. No matter what. And so I've been thinking about, this was a non monogamous relationship. And I've dated I've been in a few and a lot of non monogamous relationships and a lot of monogamous relationships, and they all are kind of hard for me, going back to the medium of the hierarchy of needs, for romantic devotion, for romantic freedom. I really identify with that. But I love, love and I love to be in love, and I'm like, highly, deeply, deeply romantic, and so I'm in this weird sort of impasse right now where I'm also, like a lot of other stuff, is happening like my career is changing. I might have to like move to L.A. across the country at any second. I am like transitioning my body and my sexuality is changing. The people that I'm interested in are changing. I just got out of this non monogamous relationship, which didn't work for me at the time because frankly, like because of a lot of the way the non-monogamous dynamic was set up. But I also like I know I can't be in a monogamous relationship and that that is like not going to work for me. So. I mean, this feels like the most sort of, you know, basic bitch tarot thing to ask, but. But, yeah, I've been wanting to ask a question on how I can be happy in love.
Michelle Tea: OK. It's not a basic bitch thing, we all need love so much, and also your story is so like, what world are we living in when we're like, You're like monogamy. Non-monogamy like story is like, it's so basic. Like, we've really–
Jes Tom: That’s true, that’s true.
Michelle Tea: We’ve really come a long way. This is an exciting time to be alive. OK. So I'm going to first ask the tarot for just like some illumination of like what your love sphere looks like right now, the little love sector in you. What does it look like? You know what does tarot want you to be thinking about in the love in the world of love. And then I'm going to ask for the second question is like, what are some things that are helpful for you. You know, going forward into love because you love love. I love that you love love.
Jes Tom: I do love love.
Michelle Tea: Yeah, it's so good. I mean, that's your birthright as a Sagittarius to love love, you know, and to want more love than the average person, you know. So what is what are some tools that the tarot can point you towards as you, you know, walk, you're challenging, but like, hopefully a very fulfilling path? Let's see. All right. So what is the love sphere look like right now? The emperor, there's your Aries rising and also the Hermit. Oh my God, the Hermit to me is the fucking breakup card. Whenever I'm in a breakup, I get the Hermit and I'm like, “Oh, no, I don't like this, you know, I don't, I don't want to be alone”.
Jes Tom: So you know what's crazy, Michel, is that what happened was we broke up, and then the next day I tested positive for COVID and I isolated for 10 days.
Michelle Tea: Oh my god, that's awful. But listen, this is actually, believe it or not, very good. You know, first of all, the emperor, it's like, you know what you want and and you actually know how it's challenging as well. And that's everything, you know, it's like, just like I can hear, like the struggle in your voice as you're talking about, like, Oh, this feels confusing. There's so much going on, but it seems like so much is going on because you actually know who you are and what you want, and it's shaken some shit up. But that's everything. I mean, that's so much better than just being kind of lost and at the whim of other people's, you know–
Jes Tom: I know, it's hard to be so self-aware.
Michelle Tea: I mean, it might feel hard right now, but I think it's ultimately it's going to it gets better. How dare I? But no, it will. It will. It will get better.
Jes Tom: They do say that. They have said that.
Michelle Tea: The next. So then the next card is yeah the Hermit. OK? This is this is really interesting, though, because when the Hermit comes up like it or not, it's actually really valuable and important for you to be unpartnered a little isolated, having more alone time than normal than what is preferable. And what's really cool you know, I've spent a lot of time thinking about this card and about Virgo because it's very alien to me. And so I really want to understand it. And what I've really gotten about the Virgo essence of this hermit card is that like. It's really about like purity of your own essence, so we're all constantly bombarded by by influence, you know, the influence of our friends of media, of the world, of our, you know, the voices in our head from our childhood. I mean, we're constantly influenced by things other than ourselves. So when this card comes up, it's really asking you to take a step back and really try to touch the heart of who you are. And you are pure essence without other people's expectations or other people's influences so that you can operate from this really strong place. To me, this looks like you're actually doing it because the Emperor card is really like a pure manifestation of that. And then your final card is the Magician. So, whoa, oh, you're going to be like in love again in like five minutes. So like, don't worry too much about like your isolation. The Magician is making shit happen and manifesting. So you want another, you know, hot non-monogamous crush, so you can kind of like, try it out again and see if you can, you know, make things, make different choices, make different arrangements. If it suits you better, you will get this opportunity to kind of continue tweaking and perfecting relationship dynamics to get closer to like what your ideal is.
Jes Tom: Yeah.
Michelle Tea: Oh oh my god, I gave you good news and you're just like at a pass out their, like they're holding their hand over their forehead like a Victorian.
Jes Tom: Yeah I’m over here like, I'm suffering. But I'm no I. I love that. I love that. It's like three guys alone doing a different thing that that's like what the image is kind of of that that spread.
Michelle Tea: It's true. It's true, but they are alone. But they also have a lot of like, you know, animal familiars and stuff. You know this the emperor here has these rams on either side and then a little lamb. And you know, the hermit is accompanied by a therapist, the three headed hound of Hell.
Jes Tom: So that's so get a dog.
Michelle Tea: Preferably three headed. And then the magician, there's this like Egyptian monkey God toth. That's sort of an ape that's kind of leaping up underneath them, giving him a bunch of energy and life. So maybe those are your your queer non-monogamous ancestors hovering around you.
Jes Tom: My slutty animal ancestors.
Michelle Tea: Yes. Oh my God, I love that. So this is just I mean, also, I do want to say and make and make a really big deal about the fact that you got three major arcana cards. The majors are really powerful, and to get a reading that's entirely major arcana means that this is a very significant moment for you. Everything that's happening is very powerful and important, and like, you know, probably to some degree, fated if I may use such a word.
Jes Tom: Thank you. That is cool. That is a cool reading.
Michelle Tea: So now for the three cards that are sort of like, what can you lean on? What can you lean on to know about, you know, as you make your way into like non-monogamous dating, knowing the ways that it's, you know, stressful and knowing the ways that it's delightful. So the first one here, OK, it's the nine of swords: cruelty. It's a warning card. Obviously, there's blood dripping from its jagged asked swords, so obviously it's a warning. So the cruelty card, I have started really thinking about it as a sort of anxiety card and things that give us anxiety. In the Rider-Waite deck, it's the card where somebody is sitting up in bed like having a freak out, right? So it's sort of about like the way our thoughts will torment us and being cruel to ourselves. Sometimes it can mean other people being cruel. So it's saying like if there's, you know, go where the love is, first of all, like don't don't hang out with people who are just like, yucking your your way of life, you're your choices. You know who you are, like, stay away from people who make you feel bad. First and foremost, especially in the dating realm, but also make sure that you're not talking to yourself in a way that you wouldn't allow another person to talk to yourself. That's going to be really important in helping you keep your mind clear. So you can just kind of go towards the things that you want is like figuring out how to how you might get a handle on any sort of like anxious thinking that you might be, that you might end up or that you just might have. Your second one, though, is more of a happier one. And it's the Gain card. It's another Virgo card. It's nine of discs. It's called, it's called gain, and it's about like good shit coming towards you. Are you able to accept like a ton of goodness? I would say, like, you know, looking at your chart as you've as you explained it, it would seem that like the savage side is like, Yeah, my goodness, I'm all about more goodness. Like, I'm fighting for the more good. And you are. But then it would I could also imagine the Capricorn being, like, very mistrustful of the of the of the goodness. And so, you know, definitely whatever you can do to kind of make yourself more and more and more receptive of like the absolute best. Like what if your biggest dreams came true, not just not just romantically, but you know, in your career, like in your body and your world, in every and every way? What if you really got everything that you wanted? Could you handle it? Most people would. You know, we most of us have to work towards that level of receptivity to the universe. But that's what it's telling you is that, you know, try to try to push your boundaries towards accepting goodness, right?
Michelle Tea: But this is what as far as like what is, you know, helpful advice as you move forward romantically prudence eight of discs, sun in Virgo.
Jes Tom: No! No! Godammit.
Michelle Tea: I'm relating to you so hard right now.
Jes Tom: The word prudence is written on there. No!
Michelle Tea: I know I'm sorry. I'm sorry to deliver this message to you, a Sagittarius.
Jes Tom: Okay, go on. Go on. Tell me more.
Michelle Tea:OK. So here's the here's the here's the gist of this card. If you look at it, it's a tree with all these very beautiful, you know, flowers growing on the tree. And then these leaves are curled around the flower. And this is the, you know, the visual metaphor for prudence. It's like these. These flowers are so beautiful and precious, the leaves are taken care to protect them. So if you think about the prudence, not as a sort of like, Oh, I should be proper or like, I shouldn't be too much, I should be restrained for the sake of restraint or for decorum. Like, that's all bullshit and like, that doesn't resonate. And it's like you are like a wild person and you want your wildness to kind of like, you know, roar and run free. And and all of that, the prudence is just more about like self-protection, you know? And also, if you, you know, in the thinking about it in terms of a relationship like if you sometimes you have a connection that could be have some longevity, but you if there's a particular dynamic at the outset where you're like driving it into the ground, you can just sort of burn it, burn through it. You know what I mean? So it's it's also sort of like if you meet someone who seems very special to you and the dynamic and the connection feels very beautiful. You might want to just protect it a little bit, you know what I mean? Instead of just like, OK, let's you know, till the wheels fall off, let's do it. You know, as much as that is so much fun to do, but it seems like if you're wanting to try something a little bit different, going slowly and getting a sense of like who a person really is. I think especially a non-monogamous relationships like and I know this is fucking true about myself, too. When I was in a non monogamous relationship, everyone likes to talk a big game about like, yes, you know, their their shit is so great. They're like, it's all working out so well. But like, there's I feel like there's a lot of cracks sometimes, you know, and so sometimes you just want to take a moment to really make sure our things the way that this person, this person is presenting everything in a particular way, is it really like this? How does it feel? You know, and you can make your own decision. So the prudence doesn't mean it's not like a moratorium on fun, Sagittarius. It's more about like, you know, like self-protection. I think a little bit.
Jes Tom: No, I hear that. And I take that to mean like, I'm in a real slutty, like bisexual awakening phase right now. I would love it. Hardcore misandrist dyke for literally like 15 years and now now I'm starting to, like, be on Grindr and like, See what's happening over here? And I'm taking the prudence card to be like, exercise some discretion.
Michelle Tea: Exactly.
Jes Tom: A little bit of discretion as to like who you think is OK to like, have a contact with you.
Michelle Tea: Totally. It's again, you know, it has a relationship to some extent with the hermit card because the hermit is Virgo and this is Sun and Virgo. So it's again about like, what's your what is, what's the root of who you are and what you're looking for? And are these things in line, you know, with your, you know, and I don't know, like sometimes our like deepest truth is just like I actually just want to sleep with like every segment of society and see what the fuck is going on, you know, and it's like, great, go at it, you know, if that's it. But it's like, Really, figure is that is that is that what it is? And if it's not like, what else? You know what what kind of restraint has to be kind of kicked in a little bit just to keep you, you know? From having mission drift about your life.
Jes Tom: I actually recently pulled a spread on this, this slutty moment question, and I literally pulled the sun and death in reverse, and I was like, OK, like stop everybody, just chill out and try to learn a lesson. Why did you learn from your break up? What are you learning, right? Drown your sorrows in whomever whomever deck is there.
Michelle Tea: Right, right. It's so tempting, though. Wow. This was so great to meet youand just like kiki with you and pull cards for you. Are you going to be like touring or anything?
Jes Tom: I have a great desire to. Are you asking me to plug something or?
Michelle Tea: Yeah Plug something!
Jes Tom: I'm actually I'm trying to come through L.A. soon because a high school lesbian movie that I have a small part in is premiering.
Michelle Tea: Oh my god, that's so cool. Is that the one on Hulu?
Jes Tom: It is.It’s called Crush. It comes out on April 29th. I play a high schooler, which is pretty cool for somebody who graduated high school in the single-digit 2000s.
Michelle Tea: Amazing. Queers, we all like, we're all just little elves forever.
Jes Tom:We're from the future and from the past. You don't know how old we are.
[Music]
Vanessa Li: My name is Vanessa Li and I am the co-owner of Mood Ring which is a bar in Buschwick, Brooklyn.
Bowen Goh: My name is Bowen Goh and I am the co-owner of Mood Ring which is a bar in Buschwick, Brooklyn.
Vanessa Li: Our book Margarita in Retrograde: Cocktails for Every Sign was just released.
Bowen Goh: Today we’re going to be talking about the ideal date for a Sag.
The ideal date for a Sagittarius is an exercise in Google Calendar-ing.
Vanessa Li: Which doesn’t sound so hot but it is. At 1 p.m. is your coffee date—something casual to get to know a person without anything getting miscon- strued.
Bowen Goh: It’s 4 p.m., and you meet your second date at the park where they’ve prepared a nice little picnic spread. Just in time to soak up the coffee from date one. This one seems a bit overeager, but they put in the effort and definitely have potential.
Vanessa Li: Moving on to your 7 p.m. date, a nice dinner and cocktail moment. This is actually the one you’re most excited for, and you definitely planned for the sun to be setting on your face as the entrées come out. You chat and have a lovely time. The date went great, and you plan a second one on the spot. Date one to explore the personality…
Bowen Goh: Date two to explore the underwear. In a way this is like a reverse sports draft, where the top prospects are saved for the last of the night. So then you have your final date at 11 p.m. Drinks, and you take them home. Serious relationship potential?
Vanessa Li: Probably not, but they’re hot, and sometimes that’s enough.
Bowen Goh: So really, your perfect date is just an exercise in ordering everything on the menu.
Vanessa Li: Now we’d like to share one of our Sagittarius cocktails: The Fallen Angels.
Bowen Goh: Fallen Angels is a film by Wong Kar-wai. It’s kind of a hitman romance, and one of our favorite scenes is actually the last moment of the film. They’re kind of riding on a motorcycle in a tunnel and he’s smoking a cigarette and the camera kind of glides to the sky and it’s kind of one of those freeing moments. And we felt that was a great fit for the Sagittarius cocktail.
Vanessa Li: So for Sagittarius, we always use ingredients that seem a little bit palette opening and you know for us kind of represents Sagitarrius is always on this like open horizon exploring kind of openly. So for this cocktail, we actually worked with our long time bartender Randall Morris and the ingredients he put together had been infused with Tito’s vodka. You know it tastes a little bit floral and a little bit sweet and it has this really beautiful kind of deep magenta-purple color. Reminds us of a sunset in a way so it really does tie in with the kind of overall aesthetics and imagery from the Fallen Angels film. And we also have tamarind nectar. That is going to be very tart and sour and then kind of balance it out with black peppercorn syrup to kind of give it a little bit of kick because you know Sagittariuses are so lively. And then lastly we used lemon juice and dried orange garnish.
So overall, just to describe the cocktail and how it looks; it’s very bright pink, magenta and along with the dried orange garnish really looks like the sky during sunset.
So the ingredients for the Fallen Angels.
11⁄2 ounces (45 ml) hibiscus-infused Tito’s vodka.
Bowen Goh: 11⁄2 ounces (45 ml) tamarind nectar.
Vanessa Li: 1⁄2 ounce (15 ml) black peppercorn syrup.
Bowen Goh: 1⁄2 ounce (15 ml) lemon juice.
Vanessa Li: Dried orange for garnish. For directions first:
Bowen Goh: Pour the hibiscus-infused Tito’s, tamarind, black pep- percorn syrup, and lemon juice into a cocktail shaker.
Vanessa Li: Add ice and shake vigorously.
Bowen Goh: Strain into a rocks glass filled with ice. Garnish with the dried orange.
Vanessa Li & Bowen Goh: We hope you enjoy the cocktail!
[Music]
Um, yes, please, that sounds absolutely amazing, and I very much want to be the kind of person who, you know, has black peppercorn syrup in their kitchen. Absolutely. As a sober person I’m going to swap the vodka for some hibiscus tea and, yeah. Thank you Vanessa and Bowen, check out Margarita in Retrograde, and swing by their bar, Mood Ring next time you’re in Brooklyn. That’s it for our show. I hope we’ve inspired you to think differently about ancestors, to embrace your gnarly astrological stelliums, and to fix yourself a refreshing beverage.
See you next week.
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This episode was produced and edited by Molly Elizalde, Tony Gannon, and Vera Blossom. We got production support from Kirsten Osei-Bonsu. Our executive producers are Ben Cooley, myself, and Molly Elizalde. Our original theme music is by John Kimbrough.
Thanks for listening!