Ibeyi: One Cup, Four Hands
Lisa-Kaindé Diaz and Naomi Diaz know their bond serves a higher purpose. In this episode, the musical duo, known as Ibeyi, reveal their multicultural relationship with the divine, their twin connection, and their relationship to Yoruba deities. Michelle Tea tells us more about this year’s tarot card, The Lovers, and the perfect spell to protect your privacy.
[Music]
Lisa-Kaindé Diaz Diaz: This is the path you're going to have to find within yourself. This is something you're going to have to discover, and it might look different for you. And it might be actually you just cooking is feeling that, you know, energy and those ancestors and that journey. And it might be for someone else some praying and other people might pray in really different ways, too. Maybe being spiritual is allowing yourself to believe in many things.
[Music]
Michelle Tea: Hello and welcome to Your Magic. I’m your host, Michelle Tea, and today I am talking to the sisterly musical duo Ibeyi – named for the Yoruba word for twins, which Lisa and Naomi are. We’re going to talk about twin magic, Santeria, and meditating on Instagram.
Also, listen close to the interstitial music you hear on this episode, it’s from Spell 31, Ibeyi’s eagerly awaited, about-to-be-released third album, dropping May 6th. And, after I pull some cards for the sisters, I have a sweet little spell for privacy, made for those who would like to keep their practice - and anything else - out of the public eye. Stay with us.
[Music]
Michelle Tea: So, we’ve been hanging out in 2022 for a minute now, but we haven’t talked about what this year’s tarot card is. Selecting a tarot card for a year isn’t done by shuffling a deck and doing a pull. It’s a numerology practice, where we add up the numbers of the year, and match it with the corresponding card from the major arcana. For 2022, it’s 2+2+2 = 6. The Lovers.
At a glance The Lovers card looks like what me and my tarot bestie Peter Anthony call ‘coupons’ – those cards you hope will come up in a reading, because they feel like the promise of a gift, a boon, a bonus. With The Lovers, we think of romance, and all the sweet fantasy of that word. And sometimes, you get it! Sometimes The Lovers really is reflecting a tender and meaningful connection, or one that is about to drift into your life. But I believe the crux of the tarot’s sixth trump card isn’t an affair of the heart, as much as it is the moment when you find yourself at a crossroads.
What is a crossroad? Well, in magic, it’s a sacred space, a liminal spot, a lull in the hum of destiny where you get to choose your own adventure. Offerings are often left at crossroads, and it is said that the veils between this world and others grow thinner in such a place. They are especially prominent in Hoodoo practices. In the most practical sense, a crossroad is where you select, or commit to, a path.
This notion of selection and commitment works well with The Lovers Often when the card arises we’re being asked to decide whether or not we’re going to stick with a crush or a partner; often the sticking-with means a leveling-up of commitment. Maybe it’s a moment we decide to pull back or take space. Open up the relationship to a different structure. Get married, get divorced. Stay, or go. All are valid options under this card.
Now, what does that mean on a grand scale, the scale of 2022 as experienced by all of us? Obviously, the psychic arts tend to get horribly diluted when stretched to accommodate the masses; it’s why magazine horoscopes are so weak compared to the dazzle of having your own individual chart read. But, as different as all of our lives are, there are aspects of our human experience that are very shared. The biggest one I can think of isn’t hard to conjure at all. It’s Covid.
For the past two years, the entire world has been in the grip of a pandemic, experiencing mass sickness and death, and the type of social unrest and conflict that comes with such large-scale trauma. And though we are no way out of the woods – as I type this, I have only just learned that two friends have caught the virus, and we’re all watching Europe warily, as new strains appear. But, in spite of it not being over, it would be facetious to not recognize that, for many people – maybe even most – the world is beginning to look a bit more like the one we last saw sans mask. For better or worse, the mandates for face coverings have dropped. Breakthrough infections are common, but for many, our vaxxes and boosters are doing their jobs. Friends are gathering, trips are being taken, the availability of at-home testing allowing us to do such things with care. I think for many of us, the moment feels like a real crossroads: How do I live, in this strange moment between pandemic and endemic? What risks can I take, and what are off-limits? To mask or not to mask? To rave or not to rave? And what about dating?
I feel that this is what The Lovers is signifying for us all in 2022. With the virus a part of our lives into the foreseeable future, we all stand at a crossroads of our very own, having to mull it over, select our path. As stressful as such a process may be, The Lover’s number 6 reminds us that this is a good thing. In the tarot, six is the number of beauty and perfection. While perfect sure feels like a stretch, there is beauty in this moment - surges of joy through our bodies as we reconnect with friends; tears of relief as we dare to face how badly we’ve missed each other. The glory of other places, beloved spots we hold in our hearts and return to for recharging, or the meaningful human thrill of plunging into a part of the planet we’ve yet to experience. Beauty, beauty, beauty.
Astrologically, The Lovers is Gemini, the twins. It’s not surprising to feel two ways about this huge and complicated situation. Yes, you want to celebrate your friend’s birthday, but what about long Covid? A trip sounds magnificent, but what if you wind up trapped abroad? What one moment feels safe and necessary can suddenly seem irresponsible and dangerous. The Lovers helps us to integrate these seemingly oppositional attitudes.
Don’t fret, dear ones. We’ve all got months and months to figure it out, helped along by science. We’re likely to pick a path, start down it, turn back, hunker down, try the other path, reject that, and so on, until we find that we’re suddenly, somehow, moving. Before we know it, we’ve built up a momentum, one that is sure to blast us into 2023, the year, incidentally, of the Chariot. The Chariot of War, okay, but the Chariot. We’ll be on our path, no turning back, by then. So allow yourself the influence of The Lovers, and stop to smell the roses as you saunter, slowly, cautiously, into the next phase of our collective life.
Here’s Ibeyi.
[Music]
Michelle Tea: Well, welcome to your magic. Thank you so much for being on the show, it's so cool to meet you guys and get to talk to you. Jumping right in. Do you guys have a magical or spiritual practice?
Lisa-Kaindé Diaz: Yes, we do. It's actually always so weird to us to to even talk about it because we feel like it's such a normal thing to have. We grew up in Cuba where everybody does, and it's really normalized and it's really a part of everyday life. So I remember when I was young and when we started working with Ibeyi, well, doing Ibeyi Naomi Diaz and I and we started doing promo and stuff and interviews and people were like, “You're so spiritual”, isn't everybody. Like, what? What does that even mean? But yeah, I think for us, being spiritual means being present means being in the moment in the breath, right? So when you sing, you are when, when you dance, when you write music, this is just, yeah, this is just a part of what we do every day. What makes us feel good. What makes us heal.
Naomi Diaz: I don't know. I think I know people who believe in it. I know people who don't. The thing is, I think for us is really kind of normal because we don't really talk about it and I think that's at least me what I prefer. And I think. It's through what you do and how you move in life and how you think and I think everybody is, some probably are scared. But we all have this kind of magic, and I think. You know, yeah, at one point, everybody's going to realize they have it through different materials, through different ways. But it's true that now I feel like it's something that is really present, that everybody feels like they should say it. And iIt's a little tricky for me. It's like believing in God like you shouldn't like it's your thing. You don't have to tell all over Instagram that you believe in God. You know what I mean? It's not is not what makes you. And I think when you try to choose something. And kind of not not..
Lisa-Kaindé Diaz: Explore all parts.
Naomi Diaz: Yes. Yeah. Explore all parts of where you are. I think there's a problem.
Lisa-Kaindé Diaz: It's actually quite interesting to hear Naomi Diaz say that because I definitely think. It's not that. It's not that I think it's wrong to say it is. I think it's interesting to see that now in today's today's world, it seems like there's only one way to be it, or we at least see only one way to be it. And I think what basically Naomi Diaz is saying, you don't need to say it. It's basically also saying this is the path you're going to have to find within yourself. This is something you're going to have to discover, and it might look different for you. And it might be actually you just cooking is feeling that, you know, energy and those ancestors and that journey. And it might be for someone else some praying and other people might pray in really different ways, too. So I guess somehow I understand what she's trying to say is it feels like if you say it, you almost have to then be a part of one specific way of being it. But maybe it's the opposite. Maybe being spiritual is allowing yourself to believe in many things.
Michelle Tea: Naomi Diaz, the things that you were saying, were making me just think, you know, there is a resurgence in sort of all things kind of witchy right now, which, you know, on the one hand, is really enjoyable because, you know, for myself, I've been interested in this stuff since I was a teenager and it was it's it's nice to see like, you know, I don't know younger people seeing what's sort of meaningful or attractive about it. But on the other hand, do you think that it's making it just sort of trendy.
Naomi Diaz: It is, but it's not, you know, everything is trendy. And I think, you know, like, it's the life we're living. But if you say, yeah, I have a but if you say you're spiritual, then show it in your actions, you know? And a lot of people say, Yeah, I'm spiritual. I believe in this, that that that. But in their actions, they're not. So being spiritual is being true to your self. You know, it's not just saying it or meditating on Instagram. Thet's no spirituality. You know what I mean?
Michelle Tea: I do.
Naomi Diaz: What I think and I'm not saying and I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I'm just saying I don't see myself in that. So it's kind of weird to me to say it. I think it's really how I live life and how I see things or how I, you know, grew up with it.
Michelle Tea: What was your upbringing like? What kind of like practices or beliefs were you guys raised with?
Lisa-Kaindé Diaz: Actually, a lot of them cause are a grandmother from my dad's side would go to church every every week, and she would sing at church. She was the the the singer, the teacher for the choir. Our dad and her mom and Naomi Diaz and I got initiated in the Yoruba in Santeria and Naomi Diaz's daughter, the daughter of Shango. And I'm the daughter of Yemaya. Shango is the origin of the God of the Thunder. And Yemaya, the goddess of the sea. Our grandmother from another side, from my mom's side is Jewish, though she never she was not practicing, but her whole family was, our family from our mom's side also all migrated to India back then when no one would go. No one will go to India. They all have Indian. Funnily enough, they all have Indian names, our aunts and our mum is called Maya. So it's super interesting. We grew up with a lot of different religions, different beliefs. Our grandmother is the most atheist theists woman you will ever meet. I mean, if you if you talk to her about spirituality, she would sigh and her eyes will roll. So it's really funny to see how everybody had different feelings about it and different feelings about religion. And yet it all worked, and they were all really respectful, opinionated, but respectful one one of the other. And for us, it was wonderful because it meant we could choose, you know, and she's nothing at the same time, which I think it's super important.
Michelle Tea: That's so great. Is there of of all of those different traditions that you were exposed to, are there are there ones that feel like the strongest that you feel there's a stronger pull in your own heart towards?
Lisa-Kaindé Diaz: For me, Santeria it's my connection to Yemaya. Funnily enough, I felt it since I was little because I used to sing in front of the sea way before I realized because our mom didn't tell us right away. Yet I would sing the only Yoruba song I knew, and back then it was for another guy who was for God, the God that opens and closes the path, and I used to sing for Yemaya in front of the sea. And and then one day they were like, Yeah, you are the daughter of Yemaya. And I was like, Oh my God, it just it felt like the puzzle had, you know, all of the pieces of the puzzle had finally made the big picture. And I understood a lot more by myself. And I pray to Yemaya. I sing to Yemaya. And you know, we sing to the audience when we we are on stage, we sing those Yoruba songs, traditional Yoruba songs that came with the slaves when they got shipped to Cuba. And we sing them, and it's it's always such a powerful thing to get to sing them and feel all of the people that have sung those songs before us. It seems like we never sing them alone. I don't know Naomi Diaz, how do you feel about it when we sing in Yoruba?
Naomi Diaz: Oh, it's really strong, it's really strong. But it's also connection with our dad, with our sister. It's really a connection with the one that are gone, but still there.
Michelle Tea: I want to talk to you both about being twins because there is such a there's like so many strong like myths and mystical associations with twins, and I'm wondering, like, do you feel that there is a particular magic of being a twin? And if so, like what? How does that feel to you guys and how has that manifested in your life?
Naomi Diaz: Well, we don't know what is what it is to not be a twin. So yeah, we can tell you that we know it's a special bond. Like a lot of like interaction with all humans, I think they're all special. But I would say that we probably know what the other thinks sometimes and you know, we had this thing of sometimes Lisa-Kaindé Diaz was in the kitchen when we were little and I was, I don't know, in my room and then we'll cross paths and we were singing the same song or stuff like that, you know? And or, you know, we call. I'm going to go her and say, what's going on? I was just like, I'm not feeling good. And so, you know, stuff like that. Yeah, there's a really deep connection.
Lisa-Kaindé Diaz: For a long time, I wondered when I was little like, how come Naomi Diaz and I are twins and so different and we were always incredibly close and there was always an enormous amount of love. But yet I could feel that there was something that was not fully there was a piece again, that piece of the puzzle that I was not understanding. And when we started Ibeyi, our band and we started playing together, it all clicked. Suddenly I knew what I was back with Naomi Diaz, I mean, this life, it's almost like, Oh, we were made to be born at the same time to produce this work. And funnily enough, several times when we when we had readings from different people, from different traditions and everything.
Naomi Diaz: That we were not asking for.
Lisa-Kaindé Diaz: That we were not asking for too, because people, yeah, it did happen to quite a lot that people would just come and give give us their knowledge.
Michelle Tea: Oh no.
Lisa-Kaindé Diaz: It's so funny when it happens, by the way. So they all said the same thing, which is one cup, four hands, the idea that there is something really special for us, but we need to be together to hold it. And every time is the same thing. You know, I remember when we were in Cuba and we went to a ceremony for a friend and then they were like, It's always the two of you, always. There's something about the fact that we are twins. And the fact that we came in this life together and our craft and our passion, which is music that was meant to be. And now that I with that hand side, when I look back at how we create and how we make music, and Naomi Diaz's strength and mine and my weaknesses and Naomi Diaz's I can see how and why we are together. It's it seems like. Yeah. We do fit perfectly.
[Music]
Michelle Tea: Well, I have tarot cards. I'd love to read tarot cards for you guys. I can do it for both of you, you know or separate.
Naomi Diaz: I think we're going to do for Ibeyi, for the band.
Lisa-Kaindé Diaz: Yeah. That's all we are interested in. You know, we're putting out a record soon and it's a third one. It will be at the 6th of May, and we want to see what's in store for us.
Michelle Tea: OK, so do you want to see like, what's the energy around this album that's coming out?
Lisa-Kaindé Diaz: Yes, please.
Michelle Tea: OK, I'll do three cards on that. What is the energy around this next release? Springtime is such a nice time to release a new, a new and, you know, effort out into the world. Oh, wow. It looks very cool. OK. So I picked three cards and the very first card is the six of swords. So this is a great card in the tarot, all the sixes are beautiful. It's like the sphere of perfection and beauty. So whenever a six comes up, you're like, Yes. And in the sphere of swords. You know, the swords they rule, they represent like our like our minds, like where our heads are at. And so often it's so easy to be in a bad headspace, right? So the swords suit kind of a tormented suit. There are good cards, though, also in that suit, and this is the best one. And it's talking about like your head is on straight, you're seeing things clearly. You're making like really good decisions like it's Mercury in Aquarius. So Mercury, being the planet that governs expression and communication, it also does govern, you know, like you're communicating with your music, right? Like you're putting it out into the world and it's begin somewhere, you know, in the mental sphere, at least partially. And then, you know, goes out into the world. So it's great and in Aquarius too, Aquarius is visionary. So it is really about like having a visionary perspective and being able to communicate that visionary perspective in a way that lands and is strong and makes a difference. It's also in the traditional like Rider-Waite system of tarot. It's very much about moving from a harder place to an easier place. So that's interesting, too. So if like, I don't know if there was ever, you know, any any history that you might have where there is maybe were more obstacles around your creativity or, you know, getting it out into the world all the different. I know that it's like, I'm a writer, so I kind of understand, you know, you have to produce the work channel, the work and then you got to get the work out into the world. And there's just like so many different realms. But it's like it looks like if there was if there were any hindrances in the past with with your other two records like this might be an is a smoother path with that. And then the next card you have here is the eight of discs, which is called prudence in this in this tarot deck and it's Sun in Virgo. So this is about dotting all your i's and crossing your Ts and just being like very like organized and structured and and strategic in a really intense way, not being. Its sort of opposite of Sagittarius energy actually. It's like such energy is so trusting and optimistic that it can be very spontaneous and fly by the seat of the pants energy because you just you're blessed by Jupiter and you're like, I'll land on my feet. Jupiter will help me do that, right? But with this energy, it's like, OK. Also, though, like, make sure you're super grounded, make sure like especially on like the business tip, like make sure all of that those things are like, really strategic. And you know, the reason for that is you have these really pretty flowers and they're beautiful and precious and the leaves are growing around them to protect them. So it's all about, you know, what you guys have created as beautiful. And it's it's to be nurtured and protected and, you know, make sure that it has all the optimum conditions to grow. But this is a good card. You know, it's it's not a warning so much as it is. Just like, you know, this coming up would say, it would suggest to me that those seeds have already been planted like those seeds of strategy and structure, you know? But just like, keep it going and then I love this. Your final card is The Chariot.
Lisa-Kaindé Diaz: Oh, it's Naomi Diaz's card, it's the 7 in the tarot, it's the card of will. I love The Chariot.
Michelle Tea: The Chariot is so wonderful. It is the card of will. And it's also, you know, it's it's Cancer. So it's all about, you know, in astrology, it's water. And so it's about things that are so close to our heart, right? And so it's like will being fueled by our hearts, right? And the things that really matter the deepest to us. So. Oh my god, it's so gorgeous. It's like I would say also. I mean, you know, The Chariot is about lifting off full speed ahead. This is definitely I would. I would say that this is going to like, you know, kick you up to another level that there is going to be this is going to open roads for you that you guys are so ready to go down your, you know, The Charioteer has this beautiful golden armor on. So like he's like decked out but also protected, you know, so there's some there's this element of like, it's safe to go forward, it's The Chariot of War. It gets forgotten that that's kind of what it is. And so it does say that like there's ups and downs, there's bumps in the road, there's potholes, but like, you've got it, you know, it is a victory card, it is a triumphant card. And so it's like you're just, you know, how to do this, you know, you know, how to to just sort of like, ride this road. This bowl here is supposed to be like a crystal amethyst bowl of blood. So it's talking about sacrifices have been made right and those sacrifices are they're there to empower you now. They're there for you to draw energy from.
Lisa-Kaindé Diaz: What I love about this card also and about The Chariot in particular, is that he is. And I think I told you that, Naomi Diaz, he has horses and they tried to go in different direction. But because of his will and his power he gets to make them run together towards where he wants them to run. And I think what I loved about that is the idea that sometimes opposition is not a bad thing. It just means you need to find a way to make it go together. But it actually can help also. And I love that about that card.
Michelle Tea: Yeah, absolutely. And here it's like the the horses are actually like two sphinxes. And then these other creatures that are like these half bull winged bulls. So it's talking about sort of magic and wisdom. You know how and mystery to a certain extent, the way that the Sphinx, you know, embodies mystery that like, we don't know what's on the road ahead, right? There's always a little bit of mystery. But like, rest assured, your chariot will take you into it, take you through it, and I'm excited for you guys. That's really this is really great. You know, it's really balanced. It's like, this is a water card. But but it is about, will, right. So it's also fire. And that way that will as fire. And then you have the Earth card here with that grounded, you know, Earth card and then you've got this great air card with the like the the best air card. So I love how balanced it is and that it ends on a major arcana is always really fortuitous I love seeing that.
Naomi Diaz: That's nice.
Michelle Tea: Yeah. Do you think you guys will tour? What is the world of touring looking like for folks these days?
Naomi Diaz: Yeah, well, it's opening. So no, no. Yeah, we can tour. So we're going to tour really soon. We're going to do the festivals this summer, and I think we have we have one or two starting in April. So it's really soon yeah. So we are happy.
Lisa-Kaindé Diaz: We can't wait. We missed it so much because it's been like almost three years or four years Naomi Diaz, but also, I feel like missing it is a really good thing. I also I went back to see a few shows lately as a as a audience member, and it was the best and I could feel how much people enjoyed it even more than before, you know, because it's got taken away from us now it's like a secret. When you're there, you're just loving it even more.
Michelle Tea: Oh my God. Totally. And you know, I mean, I don't know how much this resonates for you, but you know, Sagittarius rules travel, especially travel to really, you know, like outside, you know, your your area of origin. Like, you know, one of you just said, like, we're going to travel the world like, Oh my god, that's so yeah, whole world. That's very Sagittarius. And I wouldn't be surprised if you guys feel like most at home when traveling.
Naomi Diaz: Well, I can't wait. We love, though, being home when we travel with that much. We love being home and having one place where, you know, it's our cocoon. But to be honest, yeah, it's been too long. We're getting crazy.
Lisa-Kaindé Diaz: And we are a lot of fire, you know, we Sagittarius be we also Latina women. So it's it's really like intense. And I feel sometimes that when it's only in one place, it's like trying, it's bouncing out off the walls. So that's the cool thing about traveling and about performing is I feel all of our energy and all of our fire literally gets directed into something that we so care about. And that and that and that gives to people and that's the best thing we could ever ask for.
[Music]
Michelle Tea: I was moved by how, in our interview, Naomi expressed some ambivalence towards big expressions of spirituality on social media. I know that for some people, being really out about their practice feels good and bold and healing, and for other folks, it’s too much - rituals and beliefs feel too personal and intimate to post about. For those people - and for anyone who finds themselves, at some point, needing more privacy, I have whipped up a MYOB spell. Mind Your Own Beeswax. Here’s what you’ll need:
A beeswax candle, of course. Now, if you feel priced out by that, or are vegan, please do use a less expensive candle, or one with no animal products. I think yellow is a good color, it’s very mental.
Honey. Again, tricky for the vegans - feel free to find something pollinated by bees, like a wildflower, or even an image of a bee. I like using some bee magic for this, because bees are so focused and busy, they don’t have time to be poking their bee-noses into other bees’ business. Also, their work happens deep in their hives, private places of magic and industry. Bees are said to represent knowledge and communication, and this is what we are trying to bring privacy to.
Pluto. Planet or no, it is a magical space-entity, named for a god of the underworld, and that’s where we’re trying to keep your movements - underground out of sight. If you are able to carve the glyph for Pluto on your candle, please do. If not, just draw it on a piece of paper and place it in the honey, or over your bee.
A cloth. Any kind of cloth, but why not make it one that feels aesthetically pleasing to you?
Gather your tools at your altar, or wherever you’ll be making this magic. Do this at night, under cover of darkness. Light your candle, and let this be the only light in the room, if safe to do.
Call upon Pluto, and all the deities of the underworld. Tell them what part of you you want to be ignored, unseen, thriving in the shadows. Raise your bowl of honey, or your bee-item, in your hands and offer it to the aspects of the universe which generates camouflage and concealment. Imagine a honeybee hidden in the cup of a flower, doing its thing. A buzzing hive of bees stashed deep in a tree. Visualize your own movements occurring freely, out of sight, your powers gathering, private. Here’s a little spell to utter:
Ancient, hidden universe, conceal these facts
Inspire the minding of one’s own beeswax
So that, concealed, I may thrive to the max
Lend me your powers, within them I’ll bask
Okay, what, I just sort of threw it together. Feel free to not rhyme, and to put into your own words what you would like from the universe, and dark Pluto, and the busy, invisible bees. Make it your own. When you are done, blow out that candle, and do some work in the dark.
[Music]
Michelle Tea: That is the close of our episode, folks. We hope that whatever crossroads you find yourself at, that the paths seem enticing - paved with the possibility of friendships and love affairs, travel, exploration, and your own singular, private magic.
Thanks for tuning into Your Magic. You can support us — plus get access to a whole bunch of bonus content — at patreon.com/thisisyourmagic. Every dollar makes our work possible. Make sure you follow us on Twitter and Instagram @thisisyourmagic and subscribe to our newsletter at thisisyourmagic.com. You can rate us and subscribe right here on Spotify — do what you need to do to never miss an episode. You can email us at hello@thisisyourmagic.com, we would love to hear from you.
This episode was produced and edited by Molly Elizalde, Tony Gannon, and Vera Blossom. We got production support from Kirsten Osei-Bonsu. Our executive producers are Ben Cooley, myself, and Molly Elizalde. Our original theme music is by John Kimbrough.
Thanks for listening!
[Music]