Lucy Dacus: Everyone Is Having A Life Without Me

Embracing travel after so much time at home can have Tower card energy, and for Lucy Dacus, breaking up with her home life has been destabilizing. The singer-songwriter joins us from her tour bus to talk about keeping up with her spiritual practice while on the road, occult shops, and tarot reversals. Finally, producer Vera Blossom shares how to make an altar-to-go.

[Music]

Michelle Tea: Hello, I’m Michelle Tea and welcome to Your Magic. Today I’m talking to powerhouse sing-songwriter Lucy Dacus, beloved for beautiful and intimate solo work as well as her part in the indie supergroup boygenius. We’re going to talk about tarot reversals, occult shops, tour jokes, and more. After that, Your Magic producer Vera Blossom is going to share a an altar-to-go spell so you can keep your practice strong while hitting the road. Stay with us.

[Music]

At some point during the pandemic, early enough that our quarantine was still sort of novel and trippy, but late enough that we were all truly in it, I had a personal revelation. I have been the happiest in my life while traveling. Specifically, while being on tour.

As a writer, I’ve had a bunch of opportunities to travel in this way. Some I made for myself, like by co-creating the ongoing performance tour Sister Spit and reading from my books all over the world with a group of other writers. Other times I’ve had publishers send me around to promote new work. I love traveling, I mean really love it, Whether I’m engaged in the incredible bonding that happens in a traveling group or going solo.

Traveling in a group, I understand the interconnectedness of everything; the way we make our own little ecosystem, the way our personalities and histories, all so different from one another, fold together like ingredients in a cake. all of us sort of merging into this strange experience of being somewhere new each day, getting giddy and silly with sleep deprivation, hotel coffee and monotony, in-jokes that make absolutely no sense to anyone outside the van taking on lives of their own. It’s a type of gorgeous delirium. 

Traveling solo is more stoic, for sure, but place and time wraps around you like a cloak. It’s contemplative, spending so much time alone in liminal spaces like airplanes or Amtraks; my thoughts seem deeper, cosmic truths seem close. Alone, I face my separateness. A plane hits turbulence and I prepare to die. For real. I always feel rushed with gratitude, the people around me are so brilliant and amazing, I have been so loved and have felt such love in return, we all have to exit this place, I vow to stay present as the plane goes down, counting my breaths, leaning on my shabby Buddhist practice to take me out.

It’s not always so intense, though! Once on a plane I absolutely understood how we, humans, are all the same - we are all the universe. I imagine us as a single hand, and this here reality like a glove that is draped over us, making us each think we are fingers; 

If that’s too loopy, I also once washed my hands in an airport bathroom, and noticed the stream of water appeared almost like this solid singular thing. I moved my hand into it and broke it up into many droplets. That’s us, I thought. Humanity, maybe animals too, why not, all the energies of earth. We are actually all one, but on this plane we are broken up into droplets so that we may see and have relationships with one another. After these mystical moments, everyone - like, really, everyone I saw - looked impossibly beautiful to me.

Recently on an airplane I composed my vows for my upcoming wedding. I could feel the edges of all the energies flying brings me - a detached oneness with destiny, a mortal appreciation for the fleetingness of life. My love for my betrothed felt cosmic and powerful, preordained, and I surged with gratitude for him. 

Maybe it’s my stellium in travel-loving Sagittarius that makes geographic adventures so powerful and really joyful for me. But I think the perspective-change a good road trip or international journey provides is available to everyone, showing us the generative possibilities of the universe in what we see and who we imagine we could become in a different environment. In this moment when I can travel someplace new, with an abundant amount of caution of course, when world is beginning to slowly, carefully, reopen, I’m going to fulfill the promise I made to myself back when we were first locked in our homes - to travel as much as I can, once I can, spending as much of this one precious life exploring this one precious planet.

Here’s Lucy Dacus.

Michelle Tea: Lucy Dacus, welcome to Your Magic and thank you for being on our show.

Lucy Dacus: Thank you for having me. A pleasure.

Michelle Tea: You're doing this recording live from your tour bus right now. Where did you guys play last night?

Lucy Dacus: We played in Denver. Which is the hardest thing to play because you can't breathe. We did for the first time order like a tank of oxygen. So we each had like a little mask and looked like that guy from Blue Velvet. And that kind of helped, I think.

Michelle Tea: Wow, that's amazing. How do you if you do, how do you stay, keep any sort of like spiritual or self-care practice for yourself while you're traveling?

Lucy Dacus: I feel like it's even easier on the road, actually, because there's structure to the day and I have my deck with me. I have like a Rider Waite deck that's like a little smaller than usual and like a tin. So it's protected. And yeah, I'll do readings for like members of the opening bands and like my band and I'll pick like a card a day. Not every day, but I have like a journal as well that my friend gave me that has a little like Taurean symbol sewn into the front that she made. And yeah, like write my impressions of the cards there.

Lucy Dacus: For a long time, I was bringing your book along, and as I picked cards, I would read your entries and I wanted to ask, Have you thought about doing a book of inversions?

Michelle Tea: I haven't thought about that because I don't do inversions when I'm reading the cards. And it's just my preference, you know, and everyone can have their preference. But I just found them to be a little fussy. And also to bring more negativity into the deck because it, you know, it made nice cards sort of like it gave them sort of a dark cloud and then it took bad cards and didn't make them any better, really. So I was like, I don't know. I feel like if you're meant to get like a challenging card, you'll just get a challenging card and not like a good card flipped upside down.

Michelle Tea: It was also stressing me out like it is my tarot deck upside down, you know, like or, you know, I'm making a mistake putting a card back in. And now that's going to alter somebody's sense of their future. But but but you like them? I mean, I know a lot of there's a lot of practitioners I really respect who do use them.

Lucy Dacus: I don't like them, but I'm interested. I feel like people vaguely know that there's different meanings. And so if I'll do a reading for someone and be like, Oh, I picked it upside down, I want to be able to know if that's like something meaningful, you know?

Michelle Tea: Yeah, totally. I mean it. Yeah, it is a practice, and I wonder if there are any books out there that are just about reversals because so many people do do do that practice. It's always good to have the information, for sure.

Lucy Dacus: Have you ever read with the Mother Peace deck?

Michelle Tea: I have the Mother Peace deck. Someone gifted it to me years ago and I have another round deck that is around feminist deck that's called the Daughters of the Moon. And it's it's like very 70s lesbian feminist deck.

Lucy Dacus: Amazing.

Michelle Tea: And it is actually it's a great deck, and I love how both of them do this thing where it's like, if it's tilted a little this way, it means this. If it's tilted a little that way, it means like to me, that gives me a nervous breakdown. I'm like, Jesus Christ, no, like so obsessed. I'll just obsess looking at the cards. Like, Is it tilt? You know, it just it'll make the.

Lucy Dacus: Two o'clock or three o'clock.

Michelle Tea: Yes, it makes. It feels like it's too much. But at the same time, I love the sort of minutia detail thought that went into creating the deck. Like, I respect it, I just can't do it. Do you read with that deck as well?

Lucy Dacus: I don't, but I just got. My first in-person tarot reading from a pro in San Francisco. Her name's Crystal. She works at the store Sword and Rose.

Michelle Tea: Oh, that's a lovely story. Yeah, that is like a hardcore classic occult shop. I love that place.

Lucy Dacus: Yeah.

Michelle Tea: Feels very magical when you're going into it.

Lucy Dacus: It does. I felt very overwhelmed. I felt like there was like a waterfall under my feet, going to the center of the Earth and like my ears were ringing but without a sound. It feels silly to say, but it was like really odd. But yeah, I got a reading and she used the Mother Peace deck, and it kind of was wild. I mean, aspect that I am wrestling with but she said a lot of stuff makes sense in my life, like, I'm safe, like I'm supported. She knew what particular journeys I'm on and I'm on track, but something about my home life and my environment is severely fucked. My like environment and home life. I picked the 10 of Swords and the Tower about those. I can't foresee what that could be about.

Michelle Tea: Oh God. And that's the whole point of the Tower card is that you don't foresee it. Right before I joined this call with you, I was picking tarot cards on like what wedding dress I should get? It's like the most. It's like the silliest. I feel like the tarot is legit mad at me. They're like, Really, you're using me for this. Like, I'm an ancient tool of life and I'm like, I need help. OK? I guess I like all the dresses. I like all of them, and I just don't know what other system to help me do it. But I I got the Tower for one of the dresses, and it just makes you wonder what would happen at my wedding if I wore this dress.

Michelle Tea: I wonder if you know your your home life environment right now is like kind of you don't have one or it's like on the road, like you're living in a bus, like you're living in liminal space. I wonder, I wonder if the cards were just picking up on on that.

Lucy Dacus: Yeah, it is true. Like all the time at home, I actually got to know what home felt like which I hadn't known for years, but I'm so excited to be doing shows again. But I'm wondering if I'll get back and realize that, like I broke the spell of like having a lovely home life. Hmm. I hope not.

Michelle Tea: You just want to be on the road.

Lucy Dacus: I don't know. I want everything. I want it every way.

Michelle Tea: I totally relate to that. I've toured before and there's something about like when I'm on tour, I feel so present. I just feel so totally present. And I love like when I'm home, there's always so many different things I could be doing, like I could be cleaning my house, I could be doing my taxes, I could be writing, and then when you're on tour, you're like, I've got one job like, I know what I have to do — for the most part, and there's something just so relieving about that. And again, I just I feel very present when I'm when I'm traveling. I love that.

Lucy Dacus: Yeah.

Michelle Tea: Do you have you're a Taurus, which does make you kind of a classically a homebody. Do you have any Sagittarius or anything in your chart? Do you now?

Lucy Dacus: Yeah, I'm Sag rising and Gemini Moon, so.

Michelle Tea: Oh, forget it. Yeah. All right. You do want it all. Yeah, absolutely. Oh my gosh. Yeah, you need that variety and that sense of adventure and unpredictability.

Michelle Tea: So when did you start reading tarot cards? When did you pick up that habit?

Lucy Dacus: I started in 2018, I think. So it's been a little bit now. I still feel like a novice. I feel like it's not within my personality to feel like anything other than a novice with the tarot. Um, but yeah, it has been cool, basically learning the language of it and like thinking of the cards as words and then thinking of readings as sentences and watching their meaning be revealed just the more that you read. And yeah, I like reading for other people more than myself because I have too much bias about my own life. Also, the tarot often is just like, Why are you asking me? Like, the tarot is like, you know, and my readings are boring.

Michelle Tea: Find that to be true. Also, it's so helpful to get somebody else's like eyes on your situation. And then it's like, you know, if you're if you're studying the cards, you know how. I mean, a lot of cards have so many different kind of interpretations, and I can sometimes feel myself being like, I'm going to lean really hard on that meaning of it, because that's what I want it to mean. And I'm just like, Oh, I'm an unreliable tarot reader right now because I have an agenda, you know? And when I'm reading for other people, you know, I always want to give them good news. It's hard to give bad news, bad news, but you're like, you know, I mean, people in general, people know and there's a problem. So you're not really surprising them, you know.

Lucy Dacus: Also like but honesty isn't bad, you know, like if you get bad news, it's because something has to happen next. Usually, that's better.

Michelle Tea: Did you grow up with any kind of like religion or spiritual practice or?

Lucy Dacus: I grew up Baptist, and the church I went to ended up converting to just be non-denominational at some point. But yeah, church was like a huge part of my whole life. Like, I'd go like four days out of the week and that's what I did for socializing. And it's just like where all my friends' parents felt comfortable with us hanging out. It was the most important thing in my life, even till I was like 19 probably.

Lucy Dacus: And then there's kind of just a slow fade that can't really explain where I I think that all the meanings of the words were growing so big that, like my faith, just kind of like exploded. I do miss like the community and the practice and all the symbols and stories. And um, I miss, you know, meeting weekly with a group of people who are talking about like abstract concepts — like that was cool.

Michelle Tea: Yeah, your Gemini Moon would really like that a lot. We need more covens, obviously. Yeah. Or like like, you know, like a non-denominational lean new age study groups.

Lucy Dacus: I had a coven for a second? We were like meeting on Zoom for the New Moon. And that's not happening as much anymore. But I do. I want more practices.

Michelle Tea: Did you observe the new moon in Libra last night? Did you do anything for that?

Lucy Dacus: Oh my gosh, I didn't.

Michelle Tea: Oh no, I know that tone of voice. I know that tone of voice, of having missed a moon.

Lucy Dacus: I missed the Moon.

Michelle Tea: Oh God, it happens. There's so many of that.

Lucy Dacus: Yeah, and now without like the group, I don't have people emailing me like, OK, the new moons in three days. Um, wow, New moon last night that maybe kind of everyone was a little bit exhausted last night. I thought it was just the altitude, but I feel like new moons are often like a site of depletion and resetting. So that makes sense.

Michelle Tea: Speaking of tarot, Lucy, I have a deck here. Can I pick some cards for you?

Lucy Dacus: I would love that.

Michelle Tea: OK, cool. Is there anything in particular you want to know about?

Lucy Dacus: Maybe could we dig into the home life thing?

Michelle Tea: Sure. OK, so so a recent reader just pulled some sort of harsher cards for you, for the home sphere tower and the 10 of Swords. So I'm going to like, just do a supplementary read on that and see if we can get some more cards in the home sphere. The ever important Taurrean home sphere? Yes. And see get some more information not to, you know, contradict it, but just to augment it. So let's see. What does the home sphere look like? Can we get some information about the nature of whatever the upset or the challenging vibe is over there? OK, I'm going to pick three cards.

Michelle Tea: Huh, very interesting. All right. You got very different cards today, and so, you know, I want to think of them as sort of like, you know, additional information about that. So for if we're seeing, you know, if we had someone who's sort of predicting a Tower energy that is, by its nature, a little unexpected. So let's just say you're going to find yourself having some sort of experience around home that's unexpected and maybe a little challenging. OK. And now you have the Two of Swords, which is Peace. So I really love this. You know, I was imagining is like, you know, the reading that you got in San Francisco being the first chapter in this being kind of like the second chapter. I like the Peace card because I think the other card you got, another card you got for home was the 10 of Swords. Yeah, right. So that's sort of, you know, the 10 of Swords that you've gotten that you got that card. You know, it is a sort of like, you know, something has already happened. You know, it really it's really hand-in-hand with the Tower card in that way where it's like it's happened, whatever it is, you know, and it had been building, whether you recognize that or not in yourself or in the environment. So then following it up with this Peace card, I really like it because it feels like, you know, there's a there's a bit of serenity around whatever it is. So it's sort of taking that a little bit of the drama out of the situation. You know, sometimes when I'm giving people readings and they get a bunch of just like super apocalyptic cards and they're just like, what is going on? Like, I don't know, things don't feel that crazy. I'm just sort of like, you know, the tarot, the language of the tarot is very extreme. Like, there's not a lot of cards for like sort of a bad day or like, you know, you know, as a slightly disabling, destabilizing quandary. So sometimes you have to like, bring it down a little bit. You know, I would say whatever the quandary is that you're going to be looking at in your house, according to this, this prior reading, it does look destabilizing, but it looks like you're able to get your head around it. You know, this is Moon in Libra. And so it's all about like finding some balance that brings you peace. So, you know, thinking about, is it going to be that like you are torn between having this life on the road and having a more stable, you know, home life that you stick around for a while? This might be you making some sort of peace around it, which isn't to say that like you get the balance totally right and you're like, I've solved this problem because truly, this seems like something that plagues people in different ways throughout life. Like, it's hard to get that balance between like work and not work, because that's sort of what you were talking about also, right? Because what takes you on the road is your work. So it looks like you make some sort of peace with it and then your next card is the Prince of Wands. And now he is on stage. He is a performer. The Prince of Wands is Leo. He rules theater, music, creativity, fun, sex, play, you know, romance like he is not a homebody. So if we're looking to see like, you know, is this is what is coming up for you. Like, it seems like you've landed a little bit on this sort of, you know, dichotomy of like which way to go. It looks like, you know, if there is a fist fight between your home in the tour bus, the tour bus is going to win.

Michelle Tea: Yeah. And that's it's, you know, and as you were like, have I broken my, you know, my, that's beautiful, you know, pact I had with my home by going back out on tour like, maybe you know, your final card is really interesting and it's called Completion. It's the Four of Wands and it's Venus in Aries. And so what I think this is saying.

Lucy Dacus: My venus is in Aries.

Michelle Tea: Your Venus is an Aries. Oh, that's great. No. Thanks for sharing that. That's great information. Well, I mean, you know, Venus is yeah, it's how we relate to other people. It's also like what we find attractive. It's our esthetics, it's how we love. And it's like, Yeah, you want to be out there moving motion, forward motion, being daring like these are things that are really attractive to you, you know, and these they are sort of, you know, being living a life on the road as a performer definitely falls under that kind of adventurous energy that Aries really adores. Yeah. And you know, Completion means a few different things. It's like it's interesting cause it's not the end of the road. Even though it is called Completion in this deck, you know, the end would be the 10, and this is just the four. So this is saying you're sort of still in the beginning of a cycle and I'm going to call it your home cycle or your cycle around like home homework home to kind of like split. And I'm seeing the vibe I'm getting from this is like you. You did. You were talking about feeling like, Oh, home is nice. I do like being on the couch, you know? And so there's a feeling of. Like, all right, you did make some headway into a kind of, you know, making yourself a little warren like your little rabbit Warren like feeling those creature comforts, but it's maybe like not enough for you to really like, get into it now. Like more will be revealed, like you're on a bigger path. And that's really interesting. It's like it's also like the fours are about stability. And I wonder again, about like a feeling of stability that you get from traveling and from being on the road. And that that actually is very grounding to you, that you're grounding into your work and it's your creativity and into this like, you know, artist life that you've created. And also, it's like the fact that it's Venus. It's like if you end up like whatever you end up deciding about this split. And I feel like it looks really strongly like you're going to be picking the road. You're doing it because it's bringing you joy and love like you love it. This is a love card, you know, so there's nothing to worry about. There's no sort of like, Oh, but I should be at home or I really miss that stability. It's like, no, you know, like you had more of a like a Taurus home body experience for a moment, and it sounds like you really embraced it. And now the world is opened back up again, and it's time for you to go back out into the world. And it's just that simple, you know, and it actually it actually does look kind of simple, but I wonder what the Taurus card, if you're going to be, I'm sorry with it. I wonder with the Tower card that you received in San Francisco, if there is going to be some sort of more decision that you're going to have to make, you know around this that that something's going to force it to be more of a like. I'm committing to this versus committing to that. But if that's the case, you guys are definitely going to be committing to your tour bus.

Lucy Dacus: I mean, I have, you know, play shows like so far out, and so I'm looking ahead at the calendar. I'm like, Yep, well, I guess this is how it is. We're on tour with Marty Strange. I don't know if you've heard his record, but he's incredible, and this is his first like, really long tour and it's giving me flashbacks to like when I started touring and all the unexpected changes like realizing like, Oh, everyone is having life without me at home and in subtle and not so subtle ways like I'm changing and they're changing, and the longer I'm away, the harder it is to bridge the gap. And like, suddenly, all my relationships were long distance. Like, Yeah, I was just like, taken off guard. I don't think he's I think he's handling it more gracefully, gracefully than I did. But yeah, I don't know all of what you're saying checks out. And it kind of feels like I'm having a round two of that feeling since there was such a long break.

Michelle Tea: Yeah, that that makes so much sense when I used to do these annual tours and they were so small, especially compared to how you guys travel, how like musicians can just really be on the road for so long and just this one little month-long tour, everybody would leave the tour and go home. I would bring these poets and writers across the country. At the end of it, everyone's lives were in shambles. It was just insane how breakups happened. Affairs, just like it's like one week away and it's like all you've ever known was the inside of that vehicle and these people and the bond that you make with people that you're traveling with is so specific to that experience. And it's so tight. I really miss that. I miss like the the the wild jokes, how when you get punchy together, when you're like overtired and like the absurd sort of inside jokes that accumulate during a tour,

Lucy Dacus: We like, say the word swag all the time. That's like one of the pieces of evidence that our brains are mush to be like "swag." And it's so stupid. And I remember it stupid when I tell other people about it, but it's just part of the vocabulary for us.

Michelle Tea: That's how you know that like, you're having a hard time like reentering society when you're just like trying to explain van jokes to the people at home and they're just like, You sound so dumb and you're like, Yeah, that was the most brilliant like joke you will never understand.

Lucy Dacus: But we were excavating what it even means to be dumb. You know, it was like, that's what it feels like because we're dumb on a level that is actually exploratory.

[Music]

Vera Blossom: Hi, I’m Vera Blossom, producer here at Your Magic. Today, I’m going to give you some ideas for an altar-to-go. 

An altar is a space that a witch carves out for themself in this world to cultivate magical energy, find groundedness, and spark joy. Sometimes, you don’t have the room or a safe enough environment to build one out in your home. Or maybe you want to bring that little bit of magic space with you in the big scary outside world. If any of those are the case for you, try and build a pocket-sized altar — something discrete but nonetheless unapologetically your own. 

Like many of the spells I write, the materials and ingredients are totally up to you, but here’s what you’ll need for the basic structure: a small case for your altar like an Altoids tin or small jewelry box, something to represent each of the elements — fire, water, earth, and air. Finally, a little something extra for that fifth element: spirit.

To represent the element of fire, maybe add some literal fire in the form of a lighter or book of matches - especially useful if you want a little fire for your on-the-go rituals. You can also use a red jasper to represent inspiration and banish negative energies or an espresso bean if you want that olfactory hit of inspiration. Fire is the element of energy and action so use anything that will help you go.

Next is water, the element of emotions. You can use a vial of moon water that you charged under a full moon or a stone like rose quartz to help with healing and protecting your emotional vibe. Since your altar-to-go is a safe space, some freshwater pearls can help create a gentle, protective and peaceful energy.

Air is the element of intellect, organization, and clarity. Your magic can help you make sense of the world while also helping you to understand yourself. If you need to take a bit of a step back and find some clarity - maybe it’s helpful for you to keep a few mints in this Altoid-altar so you can chew on one while you take a mindful pause. Otherwise, you can keep an iridescent opal in your altar to focus on while you grow your psychic ability or ponder the vastness of the universe.

For the element of Earth you can leave a quarter or dollar coin in your altar as an investment in your material wealth or keep a bit of salt to protect your magical safe space – you could even use a packet of iodized salt here for convenience! Maybe your focus is on finding strength in community and family, in which case you can keep a piece of twine tied into a knot to remind yourself of those bonds.

Finally, your altar should have a bit of pizazz and an injection of something that is deeply you. Maybe you decorate the interior of your tin with a bunch of cute stickers from the dollar store. You could keep a magazine cut out of an icon you aspire to and find inspiration in like Dolly Parton or Cher. Maybe it's a folded up photo of your family and closest friends. It could even be something that just makes you happy like a novelty ring or an especially cute resin-cast 20-sided die. 

These are all just guidelines, as long as you’ve got something that calls upon the elements and a small case to put them in that fits in your bag or coat pocket, you’re good to go. And even though this is a pocket-sized altar, remember that it’s still yours. Use this altar to ground yourself when you’re feeling sad, overwhelmed, or bored. Open it up and take a whiff of anything olfactory you’re keeping like mints or coffee beans or herbs for a jolt of inspiration. Remind yourself of your power and find safety in it, wherever you are. 

Michelle Tea: Vera Blossom, thank you for that inspiring bit of witch-craft! Whether you want to tote a tiny altar through your days to boost your personal vibe, or bring it on a trip to keep your practice close while you’re outside your normal routine, I think we all could use a piece of portable magic. Plus, miniature things are CUTE.

Whether you’re deep in homebody mode, enjoying your nest, or out and about cooking up a new adventure, we hope your world feels rich and stuffed with surprise, and that the possibilities of coziness and wildness feel inviting and endless.

[Music]

Michelle Tea: Thanks for tuning into Your Magic. You can support us — plus get access to a whole bunch of bonus content — at patreon.com/thisisyourmagic. Every dollar makes our work possible. Make sure you follow us on Twitter and Instagram @thisisyourmagic and subscribe to our newsletter at thisisyourmagic.com. You can rate us and subscribe right here on Spotify — do what you need to do to never miss an episode. You can email us at hello@thisisyourmagic.com, we would love to hear from you.

This episode was produced and edited by Molly Elizalde, Tony Gannon, and Vera Blossom. We got production support from Angelica Crisostomo. Our executive producers are Ben Cooley, myself, and Molly Elizalde. Our original theme music is by John Kimbrough. 

Thanks for listening!