Conor Oberst: Mild Mid-Life Crisis

Conor Oberst is on a quest to be the greatest songwriter that ever lived. He also has big dad energy. This week, Michelle reads his cards to see if it’s his destiny to have both the career of his dreams and a family. Plus, we’re joined by Sarah Potter to learn a cord-cutting spell to sever relationship ties and move toward self love.

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Michelle Tea: Hello and welcome to Your Magic. Today I’m reading cards for Conor Oberst, the singer-songwriter that blew my angsty mind as Bright Eyes so many years ago, and whose music has evolved and matured over so many records and incarnations, but always retains that wise poetic yearning we love him for. We’re going to talk about mid-life crises and divorce and being an artist. After that we’re going to hear from the wonderful witch Sarah Potter with a very handy spell for cutting the cord on old loves. Stay with us.

Michelle Tea: As a 50 year old, I’ve been thinking a lot these past years about the so-called mid-life crisis, watching it play out in my own life and in the lives of others. It seems like an actual real thing, this desire to explode your life at some point between age 40 and 50. A friend recently explained her sudden divorce to me by insisting it was not a mid-life crisis, it was a truth. But I figure that the mid-life crisis might BE a truth, and I looked into astrology to see if it could offer any insight on this infamous stage of life, when people make a last grab at youth by incinerating any efforts at adulthood that had been made during previous decades. 

And, does astrology deliver? Of course it does! We can blame antisocial Pluto for the mid-life crisis, as well as delusional Neptune, wackadoodle Uranus, and hard-hearted Saturn. The mid-life crisis is all about the outer planets, and it starts between the ages of 36 and 42 when Pluto, the planet of death and regeneration, squares our natal Pluto. If you really want to know what that means you should pay a professional astrologer, but I’ll sum it up poorly by saying the Pluto up in the sky picks a fight with where your own Pluto is in your zodiac chart. It makes us get real about what is dead weight in our life, things that aren’t working. We’re forced to shake it off, and voila, youth as we knew it is officially over. You’re old now. 

Then, around age 40, as you’re reeling from Pluto trashing your life, Neptune floats over and squares your natal Neptune. Neptune brings confusion, which means, just as you’ve quite possibly blown your life up, you’re beset with clashing emotions, twisty-turny plans, a lack of clarity. The best case scenario is you become more spiritual, as Neptune does govern that realm, and its vibes are pretty pure in that respect. But Neptune is also like your best enabling friend, so if Pluto hasn’t ripped all your unhealthy coping mechanisms away from you - addiction, delusion, etc - Neptune will help you make everything just a little bit harder by overindulging in the wrong direction.

Next up - Uranus. Uranus, freaky-deaky as fuck and chock full of radioactive electricity, takes all the weird vibes and lights a fire of urgency beneath it. Happening around 40, the Uranus in the sky bottles your native Uranus, and you’ve just got to destroy what’s left of your life - immediately! Okay, okay, I’m exaggerating. Sort of. These transits are really, really intense! Obviously not everyone’s life falls apart around this time, but my guess is, those who haven’t been living in their truth and fostering an acceptance of basic mortality will be beginning an affair with their secretaries right about now, and speeding away from all commitments in a little red corvette when their Uranus opposition hits.

And then, like a sober friend at the end of a party, these transits end with Saturn showing up and collecting everyone’s car keys. At around age 44, Saturn in the sky throws some tough love at your natal Saturn in the form of an opposition. Saturn brings consequences. It’s time to clean up the red solo cups off the lawn. You look back and realize how much you wilded out, wash the barf off your shoes and try to regain some dignity. Now that you’ve survived the assaults of these merciless outer planets, you can catch your breath and get on with your life, integrating all you’ve hopefully learned about yourself. 

Some astrologers believe the mid-life transits don’t really end until, at age 50, the asteroid Chiron returns to where it was at the time of your birth. Chiron is the wounded healer, and its placement can detail where you have suffered your greatest losses, and where you have the largest propensity for healing both yourself and others. So after the battering the outer planets gave to your 40s, you do enter your 50th year as a wounded healer, scarred by life but hopefully  wise in how to care for both yourself and your community. 

From a purely materialistic point of view, this astrological mid-life crisis probably sounds very scary! We spend all our time working towards happiness, and these planetary shifts threaten to undo all of that. But, if we look at life from a more cosmic perspective; like, instead of chasing happiness we’re here to grow our souls in knowledge and understanding, well, the astrology of the mid life crisis is chock full of lessons. So, sharpen your metaphorical, metaphysical pencils and start taking notes. If you insist upon living in your truth from the get-go, I think the mid-life crisis is probably an easier ride.

Here’s Conor Oberst.

Michelle Tea: Hi, Conor, thank you so much for being on Your Magic.

Conor Oberst: Hey, Michelle, it's so nice to be here. Thanks for having me.

Michelle Tea: I'm a huge fan of your music, so this is extra cool. Have you had your tarot cards read before?

Conor Oberst: I have a couple of times, but not by a professional.

Michelle Tea: Well, I would love to read your cards. Would you like a tarot reading?

Conor Oberst: Let's do it.

Michelle Tea: I read with this deck is called The Thoth Deck, it was made by Aleister Crowley. It's a really wild deck with lots of information packed into every card. So that's why I like it. Um, do you have a, you know, a question? Is there something you want? More insight, more clarity? Are you on the verge of making a decision that you want to see, like what the different paths might hold for you?

Conor Oberst: Yeah, so so my question, I guess, is it's a little convoluted, but, um, I turned 40 this year and I have, um. I've pretty much dedicated my whole life explicitly to making art and my music. Unfortunately, at the expense of everything else in my life. I was I was I was married to a beautiful, sweet lady, my my wife, Corina, for well, we were married for eight years, but we were together for like ten years. And, you know, I kind of fucked it up. And anyway, we got divorced, but we're still like best friends. And I guess I'm like, you know, I'm like in a mild, like, mid-life crisis where I'm like, do I keep going in the direction I've been going, which is putting my art and my music first, or do I sort of try to make room for, I don't know, a potential family or, you know, I'm scared of getting old and being alone. And I'm you know, there's part of me is like, oh, like maybe I want kids, but I'm scared of I'm scared of that.

Conor Oberst: I feel like some because some people say, like, you can have both things at the same time, you know, but. In my experience, if you want to be, you know I am and I'll just say it, I'm. I want to be the greatest songwriter that ever lived, and I am willing to like kill everything else to do that, I think I would be a good dad and I think I could be a good husband but like. I don't think I could do that and be the best songwriter I could be, you know, so it's like. It's kind of like a weird crossroads where you got to, like, choose.

Michelle Tea: Well, I just picked three cards for going, you know, keeping the intention to, like, be the best fucking songwriter that's ever lived. And where where will that take you? Where does that road look like from here on out? And now I'm going to shuffle asking, what does it look like for you to put the brakes on ambition a little bit? And I mean, you're an artist. It's in your bones that's never going away. But what does it look like for you to make more space for family and for relationships and trust that like it will? You know, it'll shake down that if you kind of, um, if you do it, kind of go towards relationships and family with the intention that, you know, what will that bring you? What would that look like for your art, which isn't going away, but it will not be pursued with quite such a singular focus? What does that look like? And then I do want to do a third one, because I hear everything you're saying about like, you know, it's like how completely. How to go after our input are at the front of your life. It doesn't allow for energy, for family or for focus on family. And I think that there's truth to that for sure, and I've I've had like shades of that in my life, but I also feel like our culture just makes us think that it's like, oh, you have to be the great artist that foresakes everything it has, like no human connections and almost kill yourself for your art. And then you are truly genius. And it's like, what if there's like a middle path, right? What if there's a middle path where actually you make space, you know, for a gentler life that does include family and then it transforms your art and you have a whole different source of inspiration and a whole different way of working that is really different, but is still producing like really high quality work. Like what does that look like?

Conor Oberst: That would be amazing if that was possible.

Michelle Tea: I don't know if it is. All right. Let's see what we got here. So for continuing, as you are on your path of single mindedness, you have Power, Four of Disks, Sun in Capricorn. I mean, this is like this is the like I will work till I am king of the mountain. I mean, that's a Capricorns want to do. They want to be the best. They want to ascend. They're the hardest working sign in the Zodiac. This is a four. So it's like this is great. It's very stable. It's like you've already built so much in this direction. You've already laid such a huge foundation for yourself to do this. And it's there. It's waiting for you. You can just, like, plug right in and go and keep going. Then you have another four. But it's really different. It's it's a water four. It's the Four of Cups which in this deck is called Luxury. And you can see it looks very beautiful. They're golden cups and nice clean water and a pretty flower. But the water's choppy. So there's this sort of feeling that like, uh, like you can do it and you know how to do it and you can do it very well. But there's this feeling of like, oh, but I feel like time's going to run out on me. Like at some point that wave is going to come and knock those cups down, you know, which is kind of I feel like what you're talking about a little bit with like this sense of regret or like a fear of growing old alone, like the human parts of life that you feel like are falling by the wayside, um, as a result of art. So this is that popping up being like, yeah, what about me? And then you've got this Three of Cups, this Abundance card, which actually is Moon in Cancer. It's a family card. It's a love card. It's like you have so much love available to you. Um, it's I wonder, looking at the way that this what this card is saying, Power, the Four of Cups, the Abundance card, if like the fact that you want these things, these emotional things, if it's already changed your process a little bit, if like for you to go back out and try to go hard with, like, touring and a single-minded focus, if, like, you kind of maybe can't really do it like you did because you just are a little different now, these longings and the things that you want and the lessons you've learned has already changed that process a little bit for you. Um, and I don't hate it. That looks nice, but let's see what it looks like if you actually say like, hey, I'm going to really put the brakes on and I'm going to. Huh. It's going to be hard for you to to to to oh. To really deliberately say, I'm going to change my ways. I'm going to change my rambling. You know what troubador ing ways and focus on a family. You have two aces, which is like, yes, this is a really new beginning for you to do that. You have the ace of the Ace of Cups, which is emotions. So it starts a new emotional cycle for you, a new way of emoting relationship, a emoting, a new way of relating emotionally to the people in your life and to yourself and thinking about, um, relationships. And then you have the Ace of Swords, which is a new way of thinking about, um, self-expression, creativity. Certainly songwriting falls under the swords. So it's like, yeah, everything's different. You're totally starting anew. But the middle card is the Nine of Swords. It's the cruelty card and that is a card about being mentally tormented. OK, so it's like this is really.

Conor Oberst: That's true.

Michelle Tea: That'll be hard for you to feel like you've let go of a dream. It's it's not so much OK, I'm going to do I'm going to live my life a little bit differently. It's like it seems like, you know, even just hearing you talk saying like, you know, I want to be the best songwriter that's ever lived, like that is hugely motivating dream to have. So to let go of that might feel really hard,

Michelle Tea: What about trying to have it both? Try and have it both ways? Yes, you can. I knew it. Oh, my God. These cards are so beautiful because they're it's already there a little bit. Right. It's like what have you. What if you go forward and just keep keeping your nose to the ground and being like, I'm just going to keep torn my ass off and just I'm going to just be in music 110 percent. It's like, yeah, you can do it. But also look at all this love that's there for you, it's kind of pulling you away a little bit out of it, and then you can say like, no, I'm going to be a family man, I'm going to focus on relationships. I'm like, I learned my lesson. It's like, OK, cool there. That's a new way of being for you. But it's also going to torture you a little bit. But look, if you very mindfully are like, OK, I'm still going to continue on my quest to be the best songwriter that's ever lived. And, you know, music and art is it is my DNA. It's my cells. It's what I eat and breathe. And also I deserve love and downtime with family and the space to explore that and connect to that and allow that to influence my writing, my writing and my work. Look what you got. The Magician. Amazing. Like the the most creative card in the deck, right? Like you're actually creating magic. It speaks to destiny a little bit, which I like, but it's like, yeah, you're definitely going to be creating. It's not going to stop you. You're this is a super inspired card. It's a card that makes things happen. And then look at what your next card is. It's the dad card. It's the Emperor. It's like the dad, like the Emperor and the Empress are like the mom and dad of the tarot. So this is just like it's definitely speaking to that. And also the Emperor. It's it's Aries it's Sun in Aries. And so, you know, Aries gives us that ambition to want to be the best anything, like that's very Aries. Like to to be so arrogant and driven to think you could be you know, it's wonderful. It's like gives you all that fire to be like, yes, why not me, you know? And so I think it's saying that like it's saying both things. It's like dad father vibes. Yes. Also still that completely motivated focus on wanting to be the best. You want to be the king. You know, it's like the king of rock and roll. Yes. And then, look, you have Eight of Disks, which is a really lovely grounded card. These are real fiery. The Magician and in in the Emperor. It's like, yeah, yeah. We see here the the musical inspiration, the energy to put into that. And then here we have like, yeah, you can rein it in a little bit and it's OK, like there's there's room for both things to exist. You can see in this card there's a tree with eight flowers, it's very symmetrical, four on each side with these beautiful leaves curling around the flowers. And the leaves are there because they recognize that the flowers are very valuable and they want to care for it. So they're going to just do things methodically, thoughtfully, slowly. They're going to do things to protect the purity of the tree. It's a Virgo, Virgo's very concerned with purity, keeping things like special and in their essence. So I see this is like. Yeah, like you've actually got the skills, you've got the inspiration. Also, the Magician, like, has so many resources. It's like you've been doing music for so long, like, you know how to do it. You've built this machine that is your life as a musician. You know, you can step into it and you can keep evolving it and perfecting it. This Emperor card is like, yes, you have it. And like, this is just your destiny. It's just who you are, you know? And you can also, like, be a dad, you know, and whatever that means. And you can you can have that and you have it in you to, like, be able to do both, be able to, like, put your foot on the brakes when you need to. And it's not all or nothing like you can kind of calibrate as you go, like what needs to happen. I need a little family time. I need a little lock myself in a room to write time, like figuring it out. It looks like that's the best.

Conor Oberst: I think, like the experiences like I've you know, my brothers have had kids and obviously tons of friends that have had kids and. You know, part of me thinks like it's such a, you know monumental like human experience that you don't- everyone everyone that has kids will tell you like they they are completely changed by that experience and it totally like reformulates their mind, so I you know, I'm open to that and I obviously want to kind of have a complete life experience as much as like we can in our in our human form, but, yeah, I just I also don't you know, I'm scared because I feel like the artistic part, you know, lends itself to being a little bit selfish.

Like some people have the problem of their parents were dysfunctional or toxic. I have the opposite thing. My parents, when my parents were 14 years old and they went to a like a prom dance together, and then together — they're almost 70 years old. And they have they've been together every day of their lives and they're like completely in love. They, like, go on walks every day and like take showers together and are just completely in love.

I've already had one divorce or whatever, but like, I feel like I can never achieve what they've achieved as far as, like, their level of love. And so I'm like I'm just a little you know, it's kind of the opposite where I'm like, I'm skittish because. It's their love is so profound and powerful that it makes me feel like I'm not going to ever live up to to that kind of thing.

Michelle Tea: A lot of pressure to have like your parents have like the uber love story of life, like 14 years old from that like. That is really that's intense like shadow to try to build your own love story underneath. But you can do it, you know, as you were as you were telling this story, I was thinking like you, that's a lot to be under. And I picked a card for you and it was the Lovers card came up. And it's like but you still get your own love story, you know, and it's not it's not that one. And, you know, our culture does put so much stock in longevity. And we love we love hearing those stories. We love hearing them because we look at these two little elderly people and they're so cute and we're like, oh, my God, they've been together forever, you know? But it's like that's not most people's story, you know? And I think it's cool also to have a few great loves in your life, you know, and learn those lessons.

Conor Oberst: I feel I feel so lucky, like, you know, um. You know, I still like Corina, my ex-wife, you know, I still call her every every year on our anniversary and I tell her like it's the best decision I ever made and that she's yeah, she's still like my best friend, you know, she's I, I don't regret and I feel very lucky because I. I don't regret anything about our relationship, you know, kind of ran its course and, you know, she's with another guy and she's happy and whatever, but like I. I feel lucky that I never I would never regret anything that we had together because I was so awesome, amazing, so I yeah, I'm lucky in that sense.

Michelle Tea: It's like there are people who it's like their relationships are the focus of their life and they can build these 70 year relationships. Or you could also be like a wild musician with a vision and you go live and you create this body of work. You know, most people don't have that. So, you know, it's it's a trade off, obviously, but it looks like you're entering a stage of your life right now where you really get to have all the things. You get to have this career that continues to be electric with the Magician card here. And you know that you that you still get to have the space and claim the space to be really self-centered in that way, that artists need to regularly be kind of self-centered and making these self-centered decisions. You get that with the Emperor and you also get to be a dad, you know, and you get the Prudence card, which shows that it's a grounded earth card that shows you've got the actual knowledge, you know, how to do both. Like you've learned enough, like what works, what doesn't work. How can you kind of blend it? How can you blend the artistic impulse and the need for love and family? You can do it.

Conor Oberst: I'm going to take I'm going to take away from this. I think I think what I'm taking away from this is that. If I if I get my head straight and I work hard I can have everything I can still do the art and have a family and try to try to make the most of it. And I really appreciate you spending some time talking to me. Thank you.

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Sarah Potter: Hi, my name is Sarah Potter, and I am a tarot reader psychic medium and witch based in Manhattan, and I'm here today to share a cord cutting spell with you with an extra dose of self-love added in at the end. And a cord cutting is a great spell to do after a breakup when you're truly ready to move on. So when we're talking about an energetic cord, we're talking about that hold that we have on others. We're talking about that auric it connection that we feel, which I think is one of the hardest parts to break after we sever a relationship. It's that feeling we still have those connections. And so this spell will help you truly sever these ties so that you can both move on and find what you're really looking for, something more aligned with your highest good. And I love this cord cutting because it's very soothing. It emphasizes self-care and self-love because we can do this in the bathtub. And no worries if you don't have a tub, you can do it in the shower. But we're working with the soothing element of water. So what I want you to do is draw a bath with a nice, warm temperature. And when we're doing magic, I think it's important to invoke all of the senses. So make a nice play list, something your favorite music, whatever puts you in a good, relaxed mood. And as the bath fills with this warm water, add in some Epsom salts, which are really protective soothing. We're not just cleansing our physical bodies, but also our energetic aura as well. And as you fill the water with these salts, I'd also like you to sprinkle rose petals. I like to use a light pink, which is in the frequency of self love. But white also works well, and as you sprinkle the petals into the bath, I want you to visualize your ex in front of you. See the cord that connects the two of you. Now I want you to pick up your cutting implement, this might be a pair of scissors, a knife, a sword, whatever feels right to you. And I want you to say goodbye to this person. You're going to cut that cord. Now, watch it fall away. Disintegrate and disappear. And as the cord floats away, I also want you to see your ex floating away. No longer attached to you. Sit with this visual. As long as you need to. Now I want you to wash your body and wash all of that old energy of that relationship of this person. Wash it all away. We're washing away the pain, the hurt. The disappointments, the power and influence that they held over you. All of this old energy is going into the bath water. And when you're ready, remove the plug and watch the water go down the drain, taking every connection to your ex with it. Afterwards, as you dry off, imagine and feel all of the space you have created in your life by removing your ex and removing all of these old feelings. There's so much room for something new and something more aligned. Visualize this space filling up with a big, beautiful pink cloud surrounding yourself in this soothing, healing and loving energy. Breathe in this pink cloud in through your nose. Send it circulating to every organ within your body. And then breathe it out. To this as many times as you wish. Letting this pink cloud fill you with so much self-love. And so it is this is your spell to cut the cord from your ex and fill yourself with loving energy.

Michelle Tea: Thank you so much Sarah Potter. I cannot endorse this spell enough. Cord cutting spells are so crucial for letting go of old loves and old hurts and moving on with your beautiful life! And, any spell that incorporates a bath is my favorite spell. 

Thanks for tuning in to Your Magic. Wherever you may be in your life, in a rough transit or one heaped with blessings, starry in love or heart-hurt and feeling loveless, we hope this episode had something that made you laugh or cry or think a little deeper. Until next time.

Michelle Tea: Thanks for tuning into Your Magic. Make sure you follow us on Twitter and Instagram @thisisyourmagic. You can rate us and subscribe right here on Spotify — do what you need to do to never miss an episode. You can email us at hello@thisisyourmagic.com, we would love to hear from you. And you can support us — plus get access to a whole bunch of bonus content — at patreon.com/thisisyourmagic.

This episode was produced and edited by Molly Elizalde, Tony Gannon, and Vera Blossom. We got production support from Raven Yamamoto. Our executive producers are Ben Cooley, myself, and Molly Elizalde. Our original theme music is by John Kimbrough. 

Thanks for listening!